Poker, Psychology, and Preparing to Sell Your Business

Joshua: There it is. Here we go. Scott. Yes, welcome to show. You are known here as the deal Ninja or, and the spreadsheet ninja too. There you go. Right. So Scott, tell us a little bit about who you are. 

Scott: Born and raised in New Iberia, Louisiana. Um, grew up in a family oil field service company. Um, went to school in Texas.

Uh, ultimately came back home to, uh, work for the family business. And that was my really first experience with the acquisition world. Um, the company was acquired in 2009, uh, by a public company. So seeing that process and actually living that process was. Really educational and you, you learn and see a lot of things, um, both pre and post-transition.

Um, spent, spent a couple more years there and then got into wealth management. Um, spent a about 12 years in that business and also had a couple entrepreneurial endeavors along the way. Um, that ultimately led me here to, uh, final ascent. Yeah. 

Joshua: So, uh, some things that people might not know unless they kind of dig into a part of your story.

Uh, you're a scratch golfer, 

try to be, 

Joshua: and a professional. You were a professional poker player. Kind of talk to us about those dynamics and then what, what are the deals behind those things? Talk to us about the things you've learned on the golf course or at the poker table. For the deal, the world of deal making mergers and acquisitions, which you spend every day in.

Scott: Yeah, absolutely. Um, first golf. I mean, I've met most of my best lifelong friends on the golf course. Um, I think it's just an incredible game, but on top of, that's an incredible way to just network and meet people. Um, and it's certainly a passion of mine, but, uh, like I said, most of my lifelong friends were.

In some way, uh, connected through golf. Um, I guess it just brings to people, brings people together in that way. Um, and then the poker excursion, uh, teaches you a lot more when you look back probably than when you're in it. Um, like just evaluating risk. Um. Understanding money management, discipline, the things that are kind of crucial to any business.

Um, and if you don't treat it like a business, you can certainly not be successful, which lived through some of those, uh, moments as well. Um, and then just you meet so many people, different types of people. Um, it's just a really cool experience. And, you know, you learn people's stories, backgrounds, uh.

Personalities, the psychology of the game is really fascinating. Um, how people think, what they think, why they think it. Um, 

Joshua: yeah. Talk, talk to me about the psychology of, of poker and, and how that comes into play. Because I, I see a, I see a pattern in, in, in the deal making process that, you know, maybe you could help me bridge.

Scott: Yeah. I think it boils down to emotions. Um. Typically in, you know, whether it's financial markets or even in poker, there's a lot of emotions that are involved with it. Um, and that's no different than deal making. Um, you know, there's lots of parties involved in a deal, lots of different personalities, sometimes egos, um, and really being able to analyze those, um, and then manage those through the process.

Um. Again, something that you don't know at the time when you're learning it, but when you look back you realize that probably taught you a lot more than you, than you thought outside of just, you know, playing hands of poker. 

Joshua: Yeah. So what does it take to be a professional poker player? You talked about money management, right?

Like why does money management come into poker and why does that, I mean, it obviously relays into the world of deal making and, and business, but why? Why for poker? 

Scott: Managing your bank roll. Um, so in poker specifically, there's, you know, or any game of chance, there's gonna be variants, there's gonna be swings outside of your control just because the way the math plays out.

Mm-hmm. Um, and if you have your entire bank roll on the line, when one of those negative swings comes, well then you're done. Hmm. Um, you know, no different than business. If you, if you put all your, your eggs in one basket as, as the quote goes, um, better be the right basket or. You're done potentially, right?

Um, you know, same if, if you have one customer that all that generates all of your revenue. If something happens with that relationship, you have no business. Um, so really just diversifying yourself, kind of standard in any type of investment. Um, and then you have managing you, you have to allow for the variance that comes with a game like poker.

Um, 'cause there will be good times and there'll be bad times. Um. The bad times can, can and have wiped out plenty of people, myself included. 

Joshua: Yeah, for sure. The, uh, there's a song, the, the know when to hold them. Mm-hmm. Know when to fold them, right? No, when to walk away. Yep. Relay that to the world of business.

How do you know it's time for a business owner to, and when we say like maybe. Walk away. Maybe it's a, an, an exit of some sort. I think we all exits our business, our business one day. Right. Whether it's through death or succession or closing the doors. But how does a, how does a business owner know? 'cause you're in the world of mergers, acquisitions, how does a business owner know when it's time to start preparing to walk away?

Scott: That's a good question. Um, and I don't think they ever truly know. Um, and there's two components. I think there's the financial component. Which that's usually easier for people to figure out, you know, they have a dollar amount in mind. Um, the emotional side I think is probably a lot more difficult, um, especially for, you've got business owners who buy and acquire businesses and grow 'em with the goal of selling less emotional.

But you have most business owners that we deal with, especially that, you know, they've spent their life in their business, um, maybe inherited it. Maybe they're, you know, third or fourth generation. Um. That's a very emotional process to, you know, admit that that business may no longer define who you are going forward.

Um, and that it's just, you know, it's over. Wow. It's a hard thing for some people to understandably to accept for sure. Um. So I think that's probably the biggest piece of it. 

Joshua: Yeah. Now there's people who do this, the buying and selling of businesses. They do on a, you know, day-to-day basis, private equity groups, maybe even some family offices, maybe some strategic buyers, some holdcos, and, you know, buying and selling, you, you were sharing this with me in the truck this morning after breakfast is, you know, poker players learn to disassociate the chips from.

Money. It just becomes a tool in the aspect. So like when you get too emotional with the chips or with the business, how could that negatively affect your performance, your returns, your income, your future exit? What are your thoughts? 

Scott: I think that's a really good question. Yeah, 

Joshua: thank you. 

Scott: I think kind of relating it similar, um, if you manage based on dollars, it can become very overwhelming.

Um. For example, let's say you're a $50 million revenue business and you have a, I dunno, say you lose a client that generates a million dollars. A million dollars is a lot of money, but that's what 2% of your business. Um, and in my experience in the, in the stock markets as well, I've seen that people really overreact to dollars but don't react to percentages.

Um, and the higher those thresholds become. The higher those dollar amounts. So like, you know, most, uh, most clients, for example, if they had a thousand dollars portfolio and it went down 1%, what is that, like $10? They're not worried about that. If they have a $10 million portfolio and it goes down 10 or 1%, that's a hundred grand.

That's real money. Um, so it's just perspective. Mm-hmm. I think that can get lost in business as well. Manage, manage the percentages, not, not just the dollars, because they can negatively influence decision making, I think, 

Joshua: right? Yeah. I mean, I see that in my own purchasing. You know, if I'm going online and I'm buying something from Amazon, it's no big deal, right?

Right. It's, it's click of a button. But if I'm booking, you know, a trip for the family or for a business trip and it, and has a comment, right, that right, you start to pay more attention to the click 'cause what if this click is is right or wrong? Right. There's more stakes in it. 

Scott: Yeah, and I saw a similar kind of side story.

Um, I had a, uh, company that manufactured, uh, pork jerky. 

Joshua: Mm-hmm. 

Scott: And we sold in grocery stores. We sold in convenience stores, and we also sold in like some high-end hardware stores, like, uh, you know, home Depot type lo locations. Um, convenience stores were probably the worst segment of that as far as sales.

Um, and my theory always was. $7 for a bag of jerky in a gas station is a lot of money. 'cause maybe you're spending like a dollar on a, you know, a Coke, uh, in a hardware environment you may be spending 500,000, sorry, $500 on a, I don't know, a lawnmower, right? Just throw another $7 on there. It's not a, again, perspective, um, it's different relative to the total purchase.

Um. Yeah. I, I think there's always psychology anytime dollars are involved. 

Joshua: Yeah. So let's talk about the psychology of a buyer. Mm-hmm. Right? Um, you know, you're, you've become pretty good at network. You're, you're a master of that. And then also in, in reading people and understanding their motives and, and understanding that, why would someone want to buy a business?

Scott: I think it's always different. Um, most people, majority it's, you know, financial, uh, they're, it's an investment. They're trying to generate a return. Um, but you also have the emotional sides of that too. You know, maybe somebody who's been trapped in corporate America working a nine to five and they want to do their own thing, um, you know, they may be leaving a.

A big salary and just want to go have their own and have some freedom. Um, not really businesses we deal with as, as much, uh, that's typically on the smaller side. Um, but that's definitely a piece of it. But I would say generally the world we play, it's, it's almost always financially motivated. Um, even if it's a strategic buyer, you know, they're looking at either customers or synergies once they buy it.

Cost savings. Um, so I'd say. As you go higher up the, the valuation chain, um, I'd say financial returns probably overwhelmingly the favorite there. 

Joshua: Yeah. So for a seller. What is the psychology of a seller? What are the, uh, you, you mentioned financial for sure, but you also mentioned, you know, maybe second, third generation family business or this has become a part of their identity, right?

I've been doing this for the past 50 years and maybe it's time to sell health reasons, or I wanna travel with the family or spend more time with the grandkids. But talk to us about the psychology of, of saying yes to, to sell. 

Scott: Yeah. A lot of different motivating factors for the seller and what's important to them.

Um. Dollars are always near the top of the list, but not always the top. Um, almost always, I would say that they're very concerned with their employees. Mm-hmm. Especially if there's family members or children involved. What's their future gonna look like? Um, a lot of times it's, you know, just the legacy of the brand that they've built.

Um, you know, there, there, there's small things too that can be really important in deals. Like, are you gonna change the name? Like that could be a deal breaker for some people because they really value the brand and their community that they've built. Um, so yeah, but a lot of motivating factors. We always try to really understand our clients' goals prior to even, you know, helping them make a decision on, on what's the best, best path forward.

Um, do they want to sell and work in the business for 10 more years? Do they want to. Sell and go to the beach. Um, so what are their life goals? And then, you know, move down that list. What's the goals for their employees? Uh, family members? Um, customers, I mean, no, no two deals are the same. Yeah. But there's always different, you know, factors that are gonna be higher priorities for different sellers.

Joshua: Right. Now you were in, uh. A family business mm-hmm. That had an exit to, you know, um, a larger company, public company, and, and, uh, you got to experience that. And then you worked within, from, from, uh, family run business to public company mm-hmm. Working in that. So you got to see what a, an acquisition was from, from the inside.

Mm-hmm. Talk to us about the, the family dynamic of the, of an exit and what you might see even with your clients today. Like what are some of the similarities of exiting. And having some people stay on. You mentioned in your example, that someone might wanna stay on for 10 years, right? So talk to us about some of those dynamics.

Scott: Yeah. Uh, I'd say again, there's no pattern. Yeah. Every deal is truly unique. Um, but to me the, the biggest potential difference in kind of the difference in our case was just culture. Um, you know, the culture changes. It's new ownership, new people, um, new goals, new, you know. Especially if it's a larger company, they're most likely managing for dollars and nothing else.

Um, you know, smaller local businesses, maybe they sacrifice some dollars to make sure their people are taken care of, or so many unique situations. In South Louisiana is probably more extreme from what I've seen. Um, so much here is relationship based, um, which that's an element, you know, everywhere, but certainly here.

Um. So I, I would say most people know, like, you just have that gut feel on is this the right buyer? Mm-hmm. Um, and again, it's not always the top dollar. Like they may value whatever this buyer brings to the table that, you know, really resonates with them. And, um, that's more of a motivating factor in their decision than price alone.

Joshua: Okay. And then the. Going through the process of, you know, a family selling to, uh, another group. Now let, let's go on the, on the flip side, you, you talked about, you know, culture's important. Mm-hmm. So let's talk about the buyers and where, what have you seen successful when it comes to an acquisition to ensure proper integration and culture?

What have you seen work well and maybe not so well? 

Scott: I think that's pretty simple, honestly. Um, or probably easier said than done, but. Keeping what works. Um, most people are buying a business 'cause it's a good business. Um, and you have good people that are doing a good job at whatever they do. Um, obviously exceptions where they're buying a distressed company that's, you know, hemorrhaging cash and there's obviously work that needs to be done, but, uh, I found just the most successful ones are the ones that, that buy it allow you to do what you're good at.

Allow your people to do what they're good at. Um, and then, you know, guide you along the way in on whether it's strategy or maybe things you could do a little different, but, uh, a lot just common sense. How do you treat people? People wanna be treated well and most fire, I think, are in that boat. But yeah, there's always the bad ones out there.

Thankfully we haven't encountered too many of those, but, 

Joshua: right. 

Scott: Or any that come to mind. 

Joshua: As a, as a deal maker, what's your favorite type of deals? Right? The one that works, the one that says yes and the one that pays. But, you know, let's get more specific about the, the, maybe the industry or the, the function of the deal.

Like what, what kind of deals excite you the most? 

Scott: They all excite me. They're all different. You learn something in all of them. Um, what excites our team the most? I think. Is, is not just the result of closing, but a deal that the buyer, you know, two, two years later has no regrets. Um, obviously you don't know that at the time of closing, but, um, that's the most rewarding to me is if, you know, two years down the road they say, this was the best thing I ever did.

Um, makes our job a lot more fun. 

Joshua: Right, right. So. When it comes to selling a, a business, you guys, you know, uh, the, the group here focuses kind of mid-market and, you know, with, with some specialties, right? Talk to us about some of the, the areas of focus that you guys think you shine in. 

Scott: We get that question a lot, especially from perspective clients.

You know, they'll want to know, have you represented a, you know, a company that makes pink widgets that are three feet long? You know, as detailed as you can be. Mm-hmm. Uh, and our answer's usually the same. Um, the industry to, to us is not, is not relevant necessarily. Obviously experiences and certain things is, is valuable, but our process and our ability to, you know, manage the negotiations and get a deal closed, uh, is what we pride ourselves on.

Mm-hmm. Um, what type of business that is changes the buyers you go after? Um. But yeah, we, we just look for good quality businesses that we think we can create a, a market for and find a buyer for. Um, you know, again, based on where we live, you see a lot of industrial type businesses, a lot of, you know, manufacturing type businesses, um, you know, not a lot of software and technology here in south Louisiana, like, you know, California.

Um, so yeah. It's, we don't have a focus. We just love businesses and deals, um, and are very confident in our ability to get a deal closed. Um, you know, and our, our team, Jude specifically, has more experience than probably almost, you know, anybody in this industry from every angle, uh, as an attorney, as a investment banker on the sell side, and also as a.

Buyer and acquirer of companies himself. Um, so to me that experience is, is not replaceable. Um, and the industry is, it really doesn't matter. A deal is a deal whether, you know, you know about a machine shop or a, I don't know, a company that sells plants on the internet. Uh, the process is typically the same.

Joshua: Very cool. So you mentioned a lot of, uh, different types of books, movies, shows you, you accumulate, you love reading and studying psychology and, and why people do things. That's, that's one of your mm-hmm. Your joys. Talk to us about a, a, uh, a recent resource that maybe helped you understand maybe yourself or maybe, uh, other people's motivations.

Scott: Yeah. I'm just fascinated with the brain. Um, not like the scientific way necessarily, but just how powerful the human body as a whole really like the things that it takes to make our bodies and brains work is, uh, pretty unexplainable and, and crazy how, how it all takes place. But, uh. Yeah, just what motivates people, what motivates their decisions, uh, you know, why they think the way they think, how they think, the way they think.

Um, everyone's different. Yeah. But it's, uh, super valuable in deal making because, you know, everyone has an opinion and a decision. Um, but to, you know, try to understand and figure out where that's coming from and, you know, what is their end goal? What are they trying to accomplish? Especially when you're in the, you know, negotiation phase.

There's always give and take from both sides. Um, so really finding the pain points, and it always boils down to psychology, in my opinion. 

Joshua: Yeah. Talk to us about, maybe give a, a reference to, uh, a book or a movie or a show that you've learned a piece of business that maybe they didn't intend it to be a business advice, but you, you pulled it from the show or book or movie.

Scott: Hmm, that's a good question. You caught me on that one. 

Joshua: Yeah, no worries. I We can always come back to that. Okay. 

Scott: Yeah, I don't, I don't have an answer off the top of my head to that one. 

Joshua: Okay. We'll come back to that. Uh, as you're, as you guys are building this, um, this group to focus mid-market deals and, and really help on the sell side advisory, um, we talk about creating a market and finding a buyer.

Mm-hmm. Right? So let's just say you and I would go out, we find a, a company mid-market deal looking to sell. We sign 'em up and we go to town, me and you start knocking on doors, right? What's it look like to create the market and find a buyer? How do we do that? 

Scott: So, kind of another myth in our industry is a lot of groups say, Hey, we've got a network of buyers.

You know, we've got all these contacts. Um, we all have the same databases. Uh, these private equity buyers want deals. It's not hard to find them. Uh, finding the buyers is the easy. Easiest part of the process, in our opinion, um, finding the right buyer through that process and managing the process is where we think we shine.

Um, and at the end of the day, what, what generates the best price in terms for the client is if you can create competition. Um, and the bars we're approaching, they know this, they know the process, they understand, you know, how it works. Um. They don't like to compete, but they know that's part of the process.

And um, you know, we see a lot of clients who have been approached in the past by somebody trying to, you know, reach out direct to them and acquire their company. And usually it's at a low ball price and, you know, the deal falls apart for whatever reason. Um, and we always tell them that's 'cause of the competition and we see it over and over again.

If a buyer is all by themselves and they know they're not competing. They're gonna tell you everything wrong with your business. 

Joshua: Mm-hmm. 

Scott: To try to beat you down on price and convince you that it's not worth what you think in a comped, uh, sorry. In a competitive situation, it totally flips. And that's the psychology piece That's so interesting.

They will tell you everything about your company. That's great. And why you should pick them to be the buyer. Um, so a total 180. Um, so I always say, you know, buyers don't want to pay. Let's just say a six x multiple, but they will, if they have to, 

Joshua: right? 

Scott: They want to pay a two or three and do, you know, off market deals and, and go direct.

Um, but they will pay more if the process is efficient and, and managed properly. Um, so yeah, go full circle. Finding the buyers is. It's not, that's not the, the skill. Um, the databases are out there. The, there's this thing called the internet where every private equity firm has a website. Mm-hmm. They want deals.

They're in the business of investing in companies. Um, so that's not the hard part. The hard part is closing the deal, 

Joshua: creating the market, creating the competition, and then helping close the deal. Now, when it comes to, um. Someone just saying, oh, I could sell this on my own. Mm-hmm. Right. Um, that, that, that runs through every person's mind.

Whether they're trying to sell a car, sell a house Yep. Or sell a business. Right. Their, their problem. I maybe I'll, I could sell it. I'll just, you know, send an email to a few private equity groups and I'll do that process. So where does that go wrong? Or, you know, like, yeah. Where could that fall apart? 

Scott: So there's a common misconception I think that.

Selling a business is like selling real estate. Um, and that's where the comparison ends. There are so many moving parts in the deal and, and, uh, a business acquisition, um, most of which the sellers have never experienced. Um, and actually Chase talks about this a lot, a lot of sellers, they wear every hat in their business.

Mm-hmm. You know, they do the. Accounting, they do the sales. They at least grew it from the ground up and were the workhorse at one point. Um, and that's kind of just the entrepreneurial nature where you think you can do everything and figure it out. Um, that does not translate into the m and a world, though, at least in our experience.

Um, it's, it's one, it's just unknown. They've never done it. So you're trying to figure it out as you go. Uh, maybe get advisors that aren't experienced, but you're trusting their advice. Um. So, yeah, I mean, obviously we want to work with people, but we also see the value that we provide. Um, and, you know, we're pretty confident that we earn our fee just in, you know, extra value that they get in the deal.

And then, um, also the time, like it's a ruling process. Um, especially, you know, the due diligence phase. You've gotta give these buyers everything. Um, we see that a lot too. You know, you get approached by a buyer, you. Maybe like their offer, you go into diligence and then they either beat it up on value or you just decide it's not gonna work and you've just spent two months and a lot of time, and then maybe two months later, another buyer approaches you and the same thing happens.

Um, so not only are you exhausted, but you've probably also took your eye off the, the business in some regards. Um, so your business may suffer. While you're trying to get the deal closed as well, just because of the time constraints and, um, so, so we like to take that workload from the clients and let this, let them focus on what they do well, which is run their business.

Right. Last thing you want is a business to start declining. Going into closing. That's never a good situation, 

Joshua: especially if we're talking multiples, right? So multiples are great when, when things are going up, but when things are going down, there's still a multiplication effect. So if you take your eye off the, off the business to try to sell, and then it, maybe it doesn't sell this first time and you lose a quarter and you're, you're playing catch up and then another buyer comes and then you lose another quarter, right?

You might have deal fatigue, plus you just had two down quarters, right? 

Scott: So there's a lot of bad info out there too. Like, 

Joshua: okay, 

Scott: you know, everybody's heard. The business owner who says, oh yeah, my friend just sold his company for a 15 x multiple maybe, but probably not. Um, and there was probably so much complexity in the deal, like maybe it was a bunch of earn out or he had to grow at a tremendous rate to get all that money.

Um, so there's a kind of a, a huge gap in. What they think the value is versus what the real value is. Um, mm-hmm. We run across that a lot. Um, again, we, we try to get that all out of the way upfront. Um, we want buyers, or sorry, we want the sellers to have a expectation that we think we can actually accomplish proper.

We're not gonna tell them, Hey, we're gonna sell you for 20 million and then get offers for four. Like, we've wasted everybody's time. Um. So, yeah, I think there's a lot of bad info out there that makes people think they can do it themselves, potentially. Mm-hmm. Um, but yeah, there's just so many moving parts from, you know, from the diligence through the, the legal side.

Um, so many minor decisions that have to be made along the way. Um, that in my opinion, just, you know, experience is invaluable in that regard. 

Joshua: Yeah. Coming to the table with your background in. Scratch golfer, which, you know, I'm gonna see how many times I could say scratch golfer. I mean, that's, 

that's really impressive.

I've got friends who may disagree, but 

Joshua: Yeah. Right, right. And, uh, you know, your background in poker and then running, you know, being a part of the family business and then being a part of the, the public company acquisition of that. And now, you know, kind of stepping into a role where you're advisor, helping other people go through these different things.

You've, you've learned a lot. If you had to say you had like, um. Uh, a special skillset maybe that that sets you apart because of your past, because of your entrepreneurial ventures and, and journey. Like what, what would you say that is? 

This one's a little tough to admit, but they hadn't all worked out.

Yeah. And you learn, like, I remember when I went to school for, for business and, you know, thought I was, I was ready, I knew it. And then you get in the real world of business and it's man. I had no idea that's how that worked. And then you start your own businesses and then some of them work, some of them don't.

Um, I don't know. It's kind of cliche, but the only way to learn is the hard way. Um, and I didn't, again, looking back, you don't know what you were learning at the time. Um, so often in conversations now, it's like I've been through that exact situation, whether it's managing employees or you know, financial.

Management or whatever it may be. I feel like I've seen a lot more than I thought I had 

Joshua: for sure. So, Scott, for, for people out there, you know, what is, what are the, what are the questions that you get asked most that, you know, if people have, they can, you know, come to you, but like maybe what's one or two questions you get asked most before someone engages and, and does work with you?

Scott: Um. I mean, we're pretty transparent, so we tell them, we, we really try to give them a clear path of what the process looks like. Mm-hmm. Um, and then give them a very transparent valuation of what we think their business is worth. Um, and then ultimately it's, you know, the timing's never perfect, but most business owners, they know when the time is.

Is right? Mm-hmm. Uh, and you'll never get it perfect. There's no exact right time for anything. Um, yeah. I wouldn't say one, one question. Obviously they wanna know what their business is worth, um, and they want a, an honest answer, right? Um, which, which they will get. Um, and we'll also tell 'em like, Hey, you're, we can't sell this.

Like, it's one in a million that someone's gonna wanna buy this, but here's the things you could change. Here's the things you could implement potentially. Um, and hey, we'd love to stay in touch and see how the progress grows and how the story develops. Um, so yeah, every conversation to me is a good one.

Um, 

Joshua: yeah, 

Scott: you, you know, meeting people, understanding their businesses, what's worked, what hasn't. Um, everyone's unique and everyone's, it's fun stories to hear. 

Joshua: The last question I have is the, you, you said that, you know. People might, you know, promise them a $20 million when it's really only worth four.

Right. And they're doing that to get the, the agreement right to, and then the, they have to negotiate from, you know, up from four. Right. But the, you know, you, you said that there's times where you guys tell people this isn't actually sellable right now. What would make a business not sellable? 

Scott: Uh, the easiest answer is profits.

Right. A business is not profitable. Um. You know, unless it's, there's certain industries where that's kind of the norm. Like, you know, technology or software companies or pharmaceuticals, a lot of those businesses are like, they're gonna lose money early on. But if it's an established business that is just not generating cash flow, um, be a tough sale.

Joshua: Yeah. 

Especially private equity. Private equity is looking for cash flow and how they can potentially grow that. Um. So again, everyone's unique. We keep saying it, but uh mm-hmm. That's definitely number one. Um, second is, is, and again, as you move higher up in the revenue, uh, of companies, it's less relevant probably, but how dependent is it on the owner?

That's a big one. Especially lower. Um, like if the owner's doing all the work, he's the sales guy, he is got the customer relationships. You could sell it, but like, he's gonna have to stick around and they're gonna, you know, make sure he's incentivized to do so. Um, that's probably the, the top two I would say is just one poor financial health and then, you know, two a, a, a business that can't really isn't ready to be transitioned to a new owner.

Yeah. 

Joshua: What questions should I have asked you during this interview that I, I might have missed the mark and did not ask you? 

Scott: You're the best. I think you got 'em all, but you did touch just now on, uh, the valuation and 

Joshua: Yeah. 

Scott: Something that's a little unique for us, I guess in the industry is almost always we are compensated only on a successful transaction.

Um, there's no, you know, engagement fees or monthly retainers. Um, so our goal is not to sign up companies. Our goal is to sign up companies that we can sell. Um, which is why we're so transparent upfront to tell people, you know, here's the honest, like, we don't think we can find you a buyer. Um, 'cause otherwise we're wasting our time and wasting theirs.

And that's, that's not what we're here to do. Yeah. 

Joshua: Cool. Scott, where could people go to find out more about you and connect with you? 

Scott: Well, my cell phone's always on if they have that number. Um, email isScott@famergers.com, uh, which is also our website. Um, and yeah, always, always excited to, to talk to anybody, um, whether it's just for networking opportunity or, you know, they're just curious about the process.

Um, have questions. Uh, you know, anything and everything is on the table, and you learn something from every, every discussion in my opinion. 

Joshua: Yeah, especially if they're, you know, mid-market company looking to maybe sell in the next, you know, six months to a year and the guy or gal wants to play some golf or a round of poker, would, that would be ideal.

That that be fine. All right, cool. Well, Scott, thanks for coming on the show. Uh, ladies and gents out there, fellow deal makers, thanks for tuning in. As always, reach out to our guests, say thanks for being on the show and um, we'll talk with you all on the next episode. See you guys. Thank you.