What Happens When the Deal Is Done and Purpose Is Still Missing?

Josh W: Good day, everybody. Welcome back to The Deal podcast. This is gonna be a fun episode. 'cause not only are we sitting, you know, you're gonna have two hosts here, myself and, and Jude, who's, uh, the, the brains behind the operations over here. Uh, but we have a, a fellow podcaster who's done over 400 episodes, I think, has been doing this for almost 10 years.

He's a lot more famous than I am, Mr. Paul George, welcome to the Deal Podcast. Yeah, 

Paul G: absolutely. Great to be with you. 

Josh W: Yeah, for sure. Thanks, man. So if, if you're just listening in, you'll, you'll hear a few different voices. You know, my, myself and Jude and, and then our, our guest, Paul. So, we'll, we'll kind of work through the differentiations of the, the voices you might hear.

But, uh, let's start with this, Paul, as I was looking through the titles of some of your podcast shows, which is. The Paul George show. Right, right. So you don't forget your own show. Right. There it 

Paul G: is. It's easy to find. 

Josh W: Yeah. There's two themes that I kind of saw. Momentum Maori and kind of writing your own obituary.

So let's start with this. Instead of saying who you are and what you do, kind of give us your version of your own obituary. 

Paul G: Well, you know, recently I recrafted like my personal mission statement. And, uh, I think that's just an important exercise for folks to do. Like, what do I wake up and what do I wanna focus on today?

And, uh, if you're a little bit scattered like me, maybe a little, you know, all over the place, I need focus. And so crafting a mission statement is like, okay, what's my life about? Not, you know, like every day, what's my life about? So, uh, years ago I was like, made it real simple, you know, um, love God and serve others.

Okay. That's what I do today. And I'm not, I, I'll fail at it most days, but that's what I am. I get up and I try to do, and my work, my family, whatever. You guys get that. Uh, and about a year ago, I kind of, I needed a motivator tagline to kind of wrap it and give me a little bit more, um, you know, uh, more focus as I enter into this sort of, this last season of my life.

Um, so it's, it's the love God serve others and die with no regrets. And, and that, that part of it is a really an action for me to make sure that, uh, how I treat people or if I've to go back and, and, and maybe, um, apologize for things I've done in the past. Like to really, like, why do I say all that? Because when I think about that is, uh, I was given this talk recently, uh, and um, I was telling this group, man, it's just imagine that you're walking out in the middle of like a field.

And, and in the middle of the field, I mean, there's really nothing in the field, but you come up in the middle of this field and there's a, there's a headstone that's just out in the middle of this pasture, and you look down on the headstone and, and it's got your name on it, what's it say about you? And that's sort of your mission.

Like that's what you, you know, your mission is, is like what wakes you up, but like also what you want your life to speak about when it's over. 

Josh W: Hmm. Do you think that, you know, we're gonna get into deals, we're gonna get into the, the work you do with Yeah. I just went like all the way to 

Paul G: the like, Hey, you're dying, man.

Yeah. The 

Josh W: funniest, yeah. Let, let's back 

Paul G: up a little bit here. 

Josh W: I, and I know I, I've volleyed you up for that, that that spike on there and it, and it's so sobering to, to think that, you know, a lot of times as entrepreneurs, us risk takers, sometimes in our heads, we don't have the. That, that, that could happen.

But the reality is we're all guaranteed, you know, death, I think death currently is at a 99.99%. There's a few people who, who survived, you know, after death. Jesus. Yeah. And then the, you're 

Paul G: right, 

Josh W: Enoch. There might've been one other guy that escaped, but like, we, we don't have a a we're not gonna escape that.

I don't think. So Paul, you know, when it comes to the, the dash between the, the birth and the Sure. The death, right? That, that's where you're really trying to encourage these. These men, these business owners, these leaders, as to think about what does that mean? Now, translating how, what do you see in the marketplace, uh, amongst fellow deal makers in the businesses you serve?

What do you see maybe missing in that dash? What. 

Paul G: Well, I'll tie it in because I think it's all tied in you. If you, if you don't have a personal mission, I think oftentimes you, uh, struggle with having a clear mission in your work and in your business. And, and I find that a lot. So I really spend a lot of my time and started out in the nonprofit space.

It it's business, but it's not-for-profit. Same, same concepts. We, we all know that, uh, one of the things that I feel like the nonprofit world really offers the rest of business is that most nonprofits, for the most part have a clear mission. They have a passion. It, it's what wakes them up. Hey, I wanna change the community.

I wanna change the school system education. I wanna, you know, bring faith into the world. The church, you know, I wanna feed the hungry like there is. A real clear mission, right? And they just go at it, and oftentimes they struggle on the business side to make it run. So the average nonprofit ends within the first three years, and it's not because they don't have a clear mission or want to make a great impact, right?

Yeah. And then you, you go over really the for-profit side. Everything that runs a business is you're supposed to make money. And if you don't make money, the business ends. I mean, that's just business 1 0 1, right? But oftentimes on the business side, they, they lack a clear mission, a clear purpose in what they're doing.

And I think oftentimes businesses or business owners struggle because they may be making money or their business might be working, but they struggle to have a purpose in it and a clear mission within what their company is, what's the higher calling of their, their company and, and what they're doing. So I kind, I kind of love bridging the gap there and that I spend a lot of my time as a consultant kind of doing that.

Josh W: Now you're an author, you're a podcast host, or you know, like you, you run a successful show there and, um, you kind of got your start in not-for-profits. Where, where's your focus now? You said you kind of evolved over time and you started out with not-for-profits. Where are you at now? 

Paul G: I probably do about 60% consulting, 40% speaking.

I do a little bit of writing. My, my podcast show is, is not famous or anything. It just, it's, it's just part of kind of communicating the message out there. Um, I, I spend a majority of my time in the nonprofit space still. And then what ends up happening is I'll meet great guys like Jude, who are, um, faith-filled business owners who want to align their faith within their business.

And they'll be like, Hey, can you kind of. You know, walk us through what that looks like. And so we will dive into you. You can't dive into that without looking at like, well, what's your mission? The clarity of that. What's the vision of what you wanna do and accomplish? How do you treat your people? All those things.

And so I kind of spend a little bit of time in, in both spaces. Mm-hmm. But I focus a lot on clarity of mission, vision, core values, strategic planning. Where do you want to go with that? And do you have the right team and people in place for that? That's kind of where you don't kind of spend my time 

Josh W: being a man of faith.

I don't know if that's always been part of your story or, you know, there was a miraculously, you know, conversion along the, the road to mask Damascus or something like that. But did you struggle with growing up? Like I know that God has a calling in my life trying to figure out what the heck that is, but then kind of going, I feel like I'm called to the ministry, but I don't think it's to be in the ministry.

I think it's maybe in the world of business. So maybe that was where you got your start in the not-for-profit. Mm-hmm. And then you're like, wait a second. There's actually. A ministry in the world of business. Could you walk us through like your mind on that or what you might experience other men or women might have?

Paul G: Yeah. I'll have to feel torn in that a little bit. Yeah. I don't know if that makes sense. I, I did have a conversion kind of late in high school and into college, so as a young, young adult man and, uh, so in that, I, I started mentoring young people at a, um, in a local neighborhood as I was playing college baseball.

Long story, I would spend Sunday evenings, you know, just playing sports with, with young people. And, and then it, it just kind of evolved and into more of like ministry type work. And I've always kind of like, you ever doing something? And then you're like, I'm wondering if I should be doing something else.

You know? You're kind of torn there. Yeah. All the time. Yeah. All the time. Yeah. Uh, and so. I see the connection between like the ministry that you do if it's a full-time ministry and, and the ministry you're called to do, whether you're in the business world or whatever the case may be. And oftentimes in my own life, just trying to figure out where do I belong in all that, you know?

Yeah. Um, and so I, I would say that, that I'm still trying to constantly discern and be docile to what the Lord's asking me to do. 

Josh W: Yeah. Docile, why'd you choose that word? 

Paul G: Docile to me is like, um, it's a, it's a calm receptivity. Uh, so you can only receive that, um, in a sense of contemplation, getting quiet, really listening, praying, you know.

Um, spiritual director once described it to me as this, he says, you know, when you're kind of. Discerning or praying about what God wants for your life or what you should do or make a decision. And then that could be any decision, right? So it's sort of like, um, like a faucet to dripping and as it drips, you know, if it, if it hits the concrete, it splatters.

Mm-hmm. Right? So it's like there's a splatter there, everybody, it goes, if you put a sponge underneath and the water hits it, the sponge just absorbs it and there's no splatter. So he is like, when you're, when you're thinking about and praying when it feels like water on a sponge, there's a peace there.

There's a calm, there's less splatter. That's docility to me in a sense. 

Jude D: You know? Yeah. Josh and I were having a great conversation at dinner the other night, um, about the intersection between divine providence and free will and how that's, you know, one of the most difficult struggles that a Christian can have.

You know, trying to understand God's plan in our lives, but also. Knowing that he won't interfere with our free will. And I feel like docility to the spirit is where those two meet. Yeah. It's, Lord, I'm here. Take the wheel and you know, use me for your purpose. 

Paul G: Right. But, and, and to hear that you like in a sense of like, you know, people, you'll hear people say like, I, I heard God speak to me, or I heard the voice of God.

You know, what is that? Is it oral? Like to me, at the end of the day, like if you really try to understand what that means is like there's a peace there. There's some type of peace in what you're asking or talking to God about. Like, we were talking before the show that you're going on a retreat soon, right?

With some, with some guys. Well, it's on those retreats where you can kind of quiet, get away, kind of shut down like the office for a few days, get away from like the busyness and just be, and think and pray and get some quiet. That's where we, you know. Hear God the best, I think 

Jude D: a hundred percent. And you know, you need that quiet and get away and all the, the lectures and whatever it is on the retreats.

But what's the most impactful moment? It's, you know, the quiet time, it's the moment of adoration or, or whatever it is that you finally get that moment of quiet with the Lord and that's the moment of conversion. Hmm. Uh, and it's such a beautiful thing. 

Paul G: Yeah. And yeah, just to and reads scripture and like the, like, Lord just speak to me in the word.

You know, like, what do you have for me? Like, what do you wanna say? And I think we're constantly always in this tension point of like discerning and trying to figure out what God wants for us. You know, like it never goes away because we're built as humans to long and be with God. And so like to just go off on our own and be self-sufficient.

It's just never. Good thing. It never works that way, 

Jude D: but it feels like business ownership is self-sufficiency. I mean, that's, that's gotta be a struggle you see constantly it among the people you work with. 

Paul G: And I would say like, and I don't mean to generalize this, but, uh, if, if any men are listening, 'cause I can relate.

I think men struggle with self-sufficiency. Um, I think for the most part, women, a gift of a woman's spirituality is that they have oftentimes a better sense of docility to the men. Men are like, I'll go get it. I can do it, I can figure it out. And then we white knuckle it, self-sufficiency. And then, you know, I've met so many business people who are super successful but are miserable.

They're, they're, there's just something internally that's just not clicking right. And it is, they've just been going and going and going. And, uh, they're burnout spiritually. 

Jude D: You know, we, we see it with people that sell their business in particular because, you know, we witness that constantly, uh, doing what we do.

And as long as they're going a hundred percent running their business, it's, they can just ignore the part where they're miserable. Yeah. Because they have all that self-reliance and they're, they're working on their business and they get to that moment of sale and suddenly that purpose is removed from them and it's, you know, all the gaps start showing up and all the, all the things that are missing start showing up.

How would you coach somebody through that? How would you help 'em to think through what their purpose is in life and, you know, make sure that it's not wrapping their entire self into their business? 

Paul G: Yeah, it, um, it's interesting. I, I got a call one day. Uh. Just a random, Hey, I, I need you to go meet with a guy who knows a guy.

It's like a, like a mafia or something, you know? You know, a guy who knows a guy, you know, and I don't know. So like, I'm like a middleman, you know? 'cause I'm not, I'm not like a clergy or priest or pastor, you know, I'm not a counselor. But, um, I guess every now and then you get a reputation of like, Hey, this, just talk to this guy.

He, he can maybe help you. So I get a, a call and I, I go to this office building, uh, and, uh, there's a business owner I've never met in my life and, uh, sit in his office and, um, super successful. And I just asked, I looked at him and I said, uh, tell me what's going on. Uh, how are you? And he just started crying.

And, uh, for 15 minutes he just cried and told me about all the things he regretted. Of decisions that he's made in his life and now he's successful and, and, and his success has hidden his problems until they finally caught up with him. You know? And it was interesting, he, he made this statement, and I wish I could make it up, uh, but he said this, he goes, he goes, you have no idea.

He goes, in the last two weeks I bought eight cars. And he said, I would buy a car, I'd drive it for two days, and then I'd feel the same way that I felt before, so I would go buy another one. And I did that for two weeks and I was like thinking to myself, can I have one of them? You know, like, can I, that must be nice that, yeah.

And, and it was like this fleet of like, and, and the point being, I looked at it and I was like, dude, I've never. Going on a two week spinning spree like that. But I can tell you this, like I have, I have veered away in my life of like spiritually or emotionally doing what you do. Yeah. Okay. So I, I said, you know, what makes you happy?

He's like, I don't know. So just trying to get into that deeper conversation of where's your spiritual life? What grounds you, what roots you, like, what's your purpose? You know? And we were able to kind of really talk about that as he just kind of opened up and, uh, ended up really, he kind of had this conversion moment right in his office as, as we kind of prayed together and, and talked.

And I think it was a, you know, sometimes we have to hit rock bottom in our misery before we can, you know, get a new start and a new vision for what God wants for us. 

Jude D: Yeah. Good thing he was open though. I mean. So many people are off behind the cars and the boats and the whatever, feeling like that's filling the gaps.

Mm-hmm. Whenever it's really not. Um, you know, it's so great whenever the Lord's calling you and he had that moment of eight cars in two weeks and realized this isn't enough. Right. Like that, that was the spirit kicking open the door saying I'm here. 

Paul G: Right. Yeah. Uh, kind of a side story with that. Uh, 'cause it was interesting.

Um, after we met, we met one other time and, uh, I said, um, you know, if you need anything, just keep, keep in touch. And, um, I never heard from him and, um, it kind of bothered me. So I was like, God, like, you know, just take care of this guy and, uh, you know, if you want me to. You know, run into 'em, you know, make it happen.

No lie. About a year, year and a half later, I'm running through the airport and, um, I live in Lafayette, uh, Louisiana, where Jude and I reside. So you, you have to connect flight, okay? Mm-hmm. And if you're on that last connection and you don't make it, you're, you're not making it home. So it's dark. I'm running through the Houston airport and it's the last like 10 o'clock flight to, to Lafayette.

And, um, when I get to the gate, uh, the gate agent just says, grab a seat. You're the last one. Like, don't worry about, just get the last seat. So I run on the plane, just sit in the very last seat, plane's dark, and I hit the light to find my seatbelt, and right next to me. And the seat is that guy. 

Josh W: Get outta here.

Paul G: And he looked at me like, his face was like, oh my gosh. And he, no lie, his first thing he says, he, he reached down, pulled his bible out of his backpack and said, I've been reading this ever since we met, and, uh, my life's been changed. 

Josh W: The amazing part of this story is God pursues us, right? I like that. We like to do all the work.

I'm a, I'm a hustler, right? Like, I love, and I, I wanna wrestle you guys too, on, on something, not physically if you both would beat me, but I wanna wrestle you on something in just one second. But God pursued this guy. And over the year of you sitting waiting, you planted the seeds. And over the year, God was doing the work.

So when he, when you saw him, it was the right timing. I think if maybe you saw him too soon. It might have been a little bit more of you than, than God. So like, man, I, I'm glad we serve a, A God who loves us, pursues us, but also that's patience. 

Paul G: Yeah. 

Josh W: Right? Because heck man, I needed a lot of patience. All right, now wrestle time.

Ready? Ding ding, ding. Here it goes. You guys are talking about, you know, in your analogy in the beginning though, water dripping on the concrete. That's me, the hardhead guy sometimes or the the sponge, which is daal, receives, takes time, listens to the word goes on, retreats. All that sounds really great. But as an entrepreneur, business owner, you know, myself.

You know, when I'm sitting in front of an investor or a partner, they want to know that I'm, if I said I'm docile, right. They wanna know, do I have hunger? Do I have fire in my belly? You know, spit and piss and vinegar. Right? They want know that this guy's gonna go get it. Yeah. Right. So how do you balance that?

You both are successful guys, right? So what advice would you have for, you know, a younger guy who's all out on a mission to go conquer? I've got my own mission statements of why, but like right now it's like, go get it, boy. Mm-hmm. You know, like, that's my, my jam. So where do you guys stand on this? This is this.

Let, let's wrestle a little bit. Go ahead, dude. 

Jude D: Oh, you want it to come to me? Um, I don't think having hustle and having docility to the spirit are mutually exclusive. Yeah. Um, you know, we're, we're all here on this big rock floating through space trying to, you know, understand God's plan in our lives and try to be.

You know, the piece of that plan that he wants us to be. Um, and at least in my life, I feel like God wants me to be a leader of men, both in, you know, my faith and everyday life, but also in my business. Um, you know, he's, he's given me the ability to, you know, have some vision on where my business is going and you know how to have success with it.

And that gives me the ability to employ a lot of people, to lead a lot of people, um, to have conversions in the office. Like, you know, I've got a crucifix in every single office here in my building. Um, and you know, I'll go hang those up whenever somebody new comes to work here. And I'll say, Hey, you mind if I put a crucifix?

And if the answer is no, it's like, well, sorry, I'm gonna put it in. They're like, why'd you ask? Yeah. Uh, and. It is just those little openings, uh, to conversation. Uh, you know, we sit down, uh, whenever I take employees out for a meal, I say, all right, yeah, you mind if I say a blessing? And you know, it's those little things, um, that I think make an impact on people.

Uh, it's also the way you treat people. Um, you know, I feel like. I can be super aggressive at going out and getting a deal and making a deal happen, but also be very kind to the people in the process. Um, you know, make sure to live those Christian values. Paul, I'd love to hear what you have to say on this too.

Uh, 

Paul G: well, I want to piggyback on that, you know, in the wrestling match here is, uh, they don't need to be exclusive. I think it's important that our, our faith drives what we do and work in business, but we shouldn't separate the two, you know, and that's the beauty of it. So I think, you know, you guys know, and, and Jude, you know, a lot with acquisitions and making deals is like, there's times where you have a sense that a deal's not right and you gotta walk away.

And there's times where you try to force a deal, it doesn't feel peaceful, but you make it happen anyway. And sometimes the cost of making the wrong decision is way more the cost, even like monetarily than being patient and waiting for the right thing to happen. Okay. And so the, the docility and, and then the business kind of come together.

And so being patient of, of just saying, okay, Lord, you lead my decisions and if this is your, your deal, you wanna make, just, just keep opening the doors and, and, and, and, and I'll, I'll be obedient to how you want it to happen, but I'm not gonna force it. You know, 

Jude D: I, I feel like, uh, you know, you just described the.

The part before the LOI is the aggressive part. And then due diligence is what we call docility to the spirit. Mm-hmm. You know, how do we, yeah. How do we take a, take a minute and really evaluate whether this is the right thing for us? Yeah, 

Paul G: exactly. And that's the discernment phase if you wanted to kind of put it in the spiritual life.

But like the due diligence is, is is kind of the business terms. This is like, okay, like, uh, I'm, I'm willing to, you know, we oftentimes look at like the spiritual life and like there's a, there's a good word there of detachment, of like, it's okay to, to do business to make money, but is this owning me, right?

Yeah. Or am I detached from it? And so even in business, being detached from the deal, the business, the thing, and, and just surrendering that to God is, is really important. But it, it's not easy. Like, that's like really hard to do, you know? Yeah. 

Josh W: Round two, now we're gonna get into the, the. The way you run a business, right?

So part of Jude's mission is to be a leader of men and to, you know, evangelize through the world of business. And he does a great job at it. Um, within operating a business, how do you balance, you know, in your all's views, how do you balance, you know, your, your mission that, you know, you believe is given by God, but also to the p and l, to the financials, to the, you know, you do a lot in the world of operating systems and stuff.

So how do you, how do you manage, you know, the conversations that go upwards and the conversations that go with, with team? 

Paul G: Yeah. I, I'll start and then pass it to Jew 'cause it different. I work a lot in the nonprofit world as well, but profit and loss, p and l statements determine everything for any business, for profit and nonprofit.

If you're losing money in the nonprofit world, you can't exist. Either like it, it's period. So like you have to make money to make your mission work and to make your business work and to pay people, and to treat people well, and to pay them fairly and justly and do all those things. And so that's extremely important.

Do I do a lot of strategic planning with organizations? What do we doing? Where do we want to go? Okay. And that determines kind of like your path of, of your business. Like how are you going to push this business forward? But at the end of the day, it does have to bring in income. It does have to be, you know, profitable.

Um, and, and that's extremely important. Um, there's no doubt about that if that, there's no point in the business even even happening. And, and so balancing that is sometimes like your profit and loss is your discernment. It's like, Hey, we're losing money here. Like this isn't working, so we gotta do something different.

Maybe we have to trim down what we're doing, cut expenses, um, unfortunately let people go. Like, those are all hard things. But your p and l kind of determines a lot of what your, where your business is doing well and, and not, 

Jude D: yeah. We, we see it all the time with people who are looking to sell their business and they've made it to that later stage in life and they're ready to transition and they're not profitable for whatever reason.

Um, and they tell us the story about all the potential in the business, right? And people are just blind that like, whenever your business has potential, but you're not making anything of it, maybe it doesn't have potential, right? Maybe you've created a business plan that doesn't make money. Um, and it's a real challenge because everybody feels like their baby's the prettiest baby, and they come to us with.

My company has the perfect set of whatever, you know, we've made this IP or we've made this tool, or whatever it is, and the market's gonna love it. They just haven't loved it yet. And it's like, well, that's your sign. That's, 

Paul G: that's really your sign. Well, and the numbers don't lie, right? Like, at the end of the day, like through the due diligence, what's this business worth?

What, what, you know, evaluating it and you're like, Hey, the, you know, you're actually not making the money that you think or you, your potential is there. Now sometimes there, there is, maybe there's the wrong leadership in place that doesn't have the vision for this. So they maybe have a great concept, great mission, great product, but they just don't have the right team in place to bring value, right?

And I find that a lot. It's like, you guys have a great mission here. Why aren't you. Moving forward, like, what's going on? What's broken here? Mm. Do you have the right team, the right leadership in place to move this forward? Because you do have like a great, a great product, but something, something's off.

Jude D: Yeah. I think, uh, that's, that's an area where financial investors and business have a little bit of an edge. Mm-hmm. Uh, we tend to be a little bit more objective about the various businesses we're invested in. And so, you know, if I own eight businesses and seven of 'em are just like blowing and going and one of 'em is struggling, I'm gonna look at that one and say, okay, we gotta do something drastically different.

Right. I think whenever it's your one and only, I mean, you've spent your life and your career building your one business, you can really feel like it has to succeed. Like, the thing that I built has to succeed. And I think it's a real blind spot for a lot of folks because they can't, you know, step up to 30,000 feet and take that objective view that maybe what they're doing just isn't working.

Paul G: Yep. That's why as a consultant, like if I go in to a nonprofit or you know, a business, I, I can see where things are broken a lot different than the, than the leadership team or the president, CEO or whatever. 'cause they're just, they're just so hype focused on the day to day. They haven't been able to step out and kind of see where things aren't working.

And I'm kind of like, why the, the, these things are broken. We didn't, we didn't see that. You know, it's kinda like where you would come, um, you know, Jude and kind of from the outside as an investor and be like, Hey, we, we can make these changes and it will work once we do that. 

Jude D: Well, it's something I ask every company I meet with.

Why do our customers choose us? So I always try to like. Be one of the team members. So like, act like I'm one of them, but why do our customers choose us? Why do they think we're the best? And if there's not a good, a good answer to that question, it's like, well, this is not an interesting business. Right? We have to know why our customers choose us, what our value proposition is.

Yeah. What sets us apart? What differentiates 

Paul G: us, you know? Mm-hmm. Uh, a hundred percent. 

Josh W: Before we go to round three, I wanna make an observation here. It just hit me, and this might be, you mentioned you've got a few letters in, in your, in your title. O-C-D-A-D-H-D, right? Like 

Paul G: me too. Yeah. I'll just own it, man.

The best thing to do. 

Josh W: Here's, here's one of mine. As we were sitting here talking, I was, I'm sitting next to Jude and I'm sitting across from Paul George. We have a lot of Beatles referenced. We got, yep. Paul and George, two outta the mm-hmm. The, the group of the Beatles. And then, Hey Jude, one of my favorite Beatles song.

Yeah. So let, let, just a weird question. What is your favorite go-to song, whether you're going to go play outdoors or go for a run or whatever, what's your favorite go-to song and why? 

Paul G: Oh my gosh. Like the, I. I forget songs like I, I am the worst, but I don't know why. The first song that came to mind was, uh, party in the USA.

Okay. It is like, it was the first song that popped in my mind. Nice. Is it, can you sing it? No, don't do that. I'm just kidding. Please don't make me do that. What do I do? Fantastic. 

Jude D: Um, so I forgot. I like it there. There's a lot of music I like. Uh, the first one that came to mind was, uh, faithfully by Journey.

Um, but. I say that really the first one that came to mind was the one I listened to with my kids in the car this morning, which is Lemonade by Forrest Frank. Yes. Yeah. I don't know if you know Forrest Frank. No. But like, man, he will pump you up. And this song is, you know, my life gives you lemons, but my Jesus, he'd be making lemonade.

Yeah, it is about, it 

Paul G: jams out. Yeah. Oh, it, it, it really gets you to a different level. That's funny. Yeah. My youngest is, uh, in the forest, Frank. So, but I forgot all the songs, but that was the first one 

Josh W: that popped up. Nice. Cool. All right. Sorry, that was our halftime, uh, intermission with our, with our song playing in.

So we could loop in some music there. Nice. Round three, we're gonna go to scale. Okay. So before we hit to scale, I think that there's something happens, you guys call it traction right? In, in your world of, uh, consulting and how you guys. When, when it starts to have that opportunity for scale and for traction, I think that there's a mindset, especially for, and I might be overgeneralizing here, but maybe for the people who may have a Christian lean or bent or, or viewed the world, I think that there's two fundamental, um, versus that may have been outta place, and maybe we could overcome some of that in this conversation.

I've heard it preached this way, and I know that it's wrong. So let me just preface this with this. Uh, money's the root of all evil, and, uh, it's harder. You know, rich men cannot enter the kingdom of heaven. It's harder for a camel to enter the eye of a needle than a rich man into the kingdom of heaven.

You're like, oh my gosh, then why am I even, you know, pursuing success? All right, so let, let's go into round three in terms of scale and, and starting to gain success with maybe debunking some of those things that are found in the Bible. Who wants to take that one? 

Jude D: And I'll start, I mean. I think to begin with, both of those passages are two of the most misquoted passages in the Bible.

So, uh, it's not money being the root of all evil, but the love of money being the root of all evil. Um, and I think that's a struggle for everyone. You know, the love of self can be a great evil too, uh, you know, with a lack of humility or, um, you know, pick whatever your, your, your poison is. But whenever you build your life around.

Money and choosing to pursue money, um, you're gonna lack that passion that Paul was talking about. You're gonna lack that mission in your business. And you see it a lot in the private equity financial world that the whole purpose of buying a company and then later selling that company is the financial return.

And it's why a lot of people hate private equity. I mean, it's, it's, you know, we forget about the people. We forget about our focus and our mission. We forget about why the customers love us, and we instead focus on how can I financially engineer returns? Um, and so I, I think as a business owner, you always have to understand that, you know, the love of money and that, you know, constant pursuit of money above all else, uh, can be a great evil.

Um, but that's not inconsistent with, you know, being a good business owner. You know, there's so many things that are important in business, and if you put your employees first and put your customers first. You have a great business plan, you can be a great business. And the fruit of that, you know, the scoreboard there is your p and l and the amount of money that comes into the business.

So I think that's a, that's a pretty easy one. Pass it off to Paul for the other one, 

Josh W: the camel and the needles. 

Paul G: Yeah. You know, the, the interesting thing is if we don't have business, we don't have an economy, and if we don't have an economy, we can't pay people. And then so everybody's broke and, and God doesn't, you know, want us, you know, to, you know, be homeless.

And so there is, there is this balance, you know, and, and the, the passage of the camels of the Iron Needle, the imagery there is, is a, there's a, there's a gate in Jerusalem. This, you know, the eye of the needle and it's a, this narrow. Passage through the gate, and they would take their camel through there.

So if you had a ton of things on your camel, the camel couldn't pass through there. 'cause you got too much baggage, too much stuff, too much luggage. And so you had to trim down what was on the camel to get through. Right? So you'd have to look at your camel and be like, am I willing to let go of some of these things that I brought?

Am I detached from these possessions to get through? Or what? Like you have to make that decision. And so it's really not like Gee was saying like the love of money, the, the attachment to things. But as a business owner, you have a great gift and responsibility to people, uh, to help their lives. I, one of the things I get to do is I get to meet very successful people who are trying to live their faith in the business world.

And I get to see them do. Amazing things with the responsibility God has given them with their business, with their money, how they share that, what, what we call it in, in the faith is, uh, justice. You know, how am I being just with what God has given me? How am I sharing that? How am I treating employees? Uh, am I paying just wages?

Am I treating people fairly? When business owners are doing that, they have so much joy and peace and purpose in why they do business because at some point the amount of money they have, and, and studies show this, there's a, there's a bell curve to success that won. Like the more you have, there's no correlation to how happier you are there.

There's an eventual fall off the other end of the bell curve of more doesn't make me happier. Mm-hmm. But the more you share does, so. There's this connection with taking what God has given us and being responsible with it and, and having a purpose to it. Those hands down, the entrepreneurs I meet who are doing that are the most fulfilled.

Josh W: So let's just say I love this, this, this bell curve idea, right? So like, if you're starving, right, having a little extra money does maybe bring extra, yes, you know, happiness or joy, but there's a law of diminishing marginal return. When that starts to hit. It's like, how much is enough? You know, Warren Buffett would say, one more dollar, or, we were talking about this the other day in the, uh.

The movie, uh, wall Street, where it's like one more deal or something like that. Right? 

Jude D: Yeah. So, uh, he talks to the, the Wall Street banker and says, what's your number? And, uh, the guy thinks for a second and says more. Yeah, right. More. 

Josh W: Yeah, more. Yeah. 

Jude D: I think that's very easy. If you don't know what you're shooting for, the answer's always more.

Yep. 

Josh W: If the answer's always more. So how do you balance that guys? And we're in round three, how do you balance with what is enough? What is, what is success? How do I get out of the red zone? Yeah. If we're, if we're talking about it from a belief system now for, if you don't have a belief system or your, your mission is just to make as much money as possible and let's not, not even say you're gonna give it away just because you're afraid of the future economy or you want your to set up your kids, or you came from a passive whatever.

Like how do you balance scale? Like what, what is success? What is scale in that round three? Let's talk about that and maybe where some people get it wrong. 

Paul G: I, um, you know, I dunno if there's a right or wrong answer to this 'cause it's such a conversation around it. Um, I could tell you in my experience of being interfaced with pretty amazing people, uh, and what they're doing or vice versa, is that there, there is a bell curve, but like, if you do any research on any studies on happiness, so there's three main components that we need to be happy.

Uh, food, shelter, and community. Okay. And once someone has, and uh, the ability to have consistent food, shelter, friendship, there becomes a bell curve on that. Like, there's not more you get, the more happy you're, so what that bell curve is, and then there's a backslide on the back end. Okay. Um, so what does that mean?

Well, the people who find sort of. The, the apex of that bell curve is in business is they, they come to a point where they realize that there's a purpose to their business, right? There's a longevity of how to share this, how, how to treat people. There just is like, there, I have met more business owners who have used their resources to help people, uh, start new nonprofits and spin things off with missional based things that are changing the world.

That to me like, that's like such a beautiful witness of using your resources, uh, for good, for helping people. And so I, I think when we come to the end of our life, people who are successful monetarily will look back on how they use their resources to help change the world and other people, and that's what's gonna bring them a lot of peace.

Jude D: Yeah. I, I feel like. Love of money. Being the root of all evil is not just a problem for rich people. And, and I think a lot of people love to frame it in that context. Um, it's not, it's, it's a problem for everybody. And what you see is, you know, people having debt up to their eyeballs to be able to finance all the things that are flashy in the right car, in the right house, and the right this and the right that.

Um, and so, you know, that's something we decided early along, um, you know, for our various employees at the different companies in Ken Capital. Um, I want to help people break that cycle. Uh, and so we actually adopted, um, Dave Ramsey's program. Yep. Smart Dollar. Mm-hmm. Which you can, you know, company sponsors that every person in the company gets access to it.

They get one-on-one coaching with a financial consultant and all kinds of stuff, which is, it's been a fantastic thing for us. Um, it's hard to even get people to want to adopt it though, because, you know, they've got that love of money and they're, you know, kind of focused on. You know, spending and, and, you know, whatever it is that I can get with this week's paycheck.

Uh, but it's a real problem, you know, whether you're a business owner who's very successful, or you're a, you know, a laborer who's, you know, spending every dollar of every paycheck, uh, and then some, you know, it's, it's a matter of breaking free from those constraints of, you know, wanting more, wanting things in my life and thinking that those will lead to happiness.

They just don't. Um, I love the opportunity to give, uh, it's, you know, more and more I'm realizing what Paul's talking about, that, you know, you get, get to this point and you realize money doesn't make happiness. The ability to give and do for others, you know, creates that additional happiness. Um, and you know, you, you see it in.

Regular everyday companies. You see it, see it with strategic acquirers and private equity acquirers, um, alike. You know, some of 'em are focused on the people and how do we take care of, um, you know, the culture and, and you know, doing more for people and you see others that are just about a financial return.

Uh, and so we're, we're constantly coaching people through the acquisition process. Focus on that culture piece first. Focus on finding those people that are gonna align their values with yours. Because something we see all the time from business owners, whenever they're going through the sale process, you know, they don't quite know what their goals are.

They think it's just a bigger dollar amount, but whenever, you know, they get into that negotiation, they realize, oh wait, these people are gonna ruin my brand. They're gonna ruin my company, my legacy, or they're gonna treat my employees poorly. And so it's really a balance, you know, finding what the right mix is, you know, both whenever you're running a business, but also through the acquisition process.

Paul G: I love what. Jude just said, uh, 'cause that's a great point, is that like our, our attachment to material things is not just, if you're wealthy and you have a bunch of things, it's like, I think it's 70 to 80% of. The average American lives paycheck to paycheck, and most people just don't even know how to work or deal with money, you know?

So I think a great thing for a company would do is kind of what you was talking about, is like, let's teach our employees how to deal with money, how to save money, how not to live paycheck to paycheck, how to live within means, like what not many parents even teach their kids the value of money or even how to deal with it.

So like you become an adult and you're like, I don't know, a dollar's worth a dollar. I'm gonna spend a dollar and then not have anything left. Like it's just, and you, then you scale that. If someone's making millions, it doesn't really matter there. There's no understanding of the value and the impact of it.

And so we can become attached whether we have a dollar or a million For sure. Hands down. I love that. 

Jude D: Yeah. Boy, we could have a whole other podcast of why parents avoid difficult topics with their kids. You know, how to deal with money, religion, politics, sex, whatever. Like 

Paul G: yes, a hundred percent. Yeah, exactly.

So. We, we kind of live in, in, in that kind of culture of avoiding those types of conversations when we shouldn't. It's part of the human experience. 

Jude D: Well, your kids are gonna learn it somewhere. They're going to learn about all these topics somewhere. Mm-hmm. So do you want 'em to learn from you or do you want 'em to learn from somebody else?

Right. 

Josh W: There's some things I want my kids to learn from other people. 'cause I'm not, I'm totally failing and I'm like, you, you go talk to Uncle Jude, he'll take care of you on this one. All right. Before we go into round four, uh, we, we have a, actually my director Chris, kind of came up with this idea and we think it's a, a phenomenal idea.

Each guest gets to leave behind a question for the next guest. So it's a kind of way to carry on. So I'm gonna ask you a question. This is from CT three, college, temple ii. Okay. Right. He was sitting in your seat, uh, yesterday. Oh man. I get to follow up some pretty, he did a great job. I think you guys are, uh, close to the same height.

So I look up to both of you guys, but, um, he left a question, so you're gonna be thinking about what your question for the next guest will be, but I'm gonna read his question and then we're gonna move into the final round, round four. Okay. But here's your question for Mr. Cost. What has you most excited about the next five years and why?

Paul G: I love that. Thanks Carlos. Shout out. That's a good one. Next five years. Uh, I would say the first thing that came to mind would be, um, well, two things. One, on the family side, uh, seeing my young adult kids get married and have babies and, and we have our one grandchild right now. So like, seeing our family grow and I, and I don't know, it's just kind of cool.

Mm-hmm. Uh, seeing their lives kind of take off and, and seeing what, what God has for them. So I know within the next five years, this is gonna be an expansion of our, our family, and I don't even know what that looks like. Totally. And that's kind of cool to think about. Um, I think on, like, on the personal end, I just, um, like I'm excited about the opportunity to enter in sort of this, this, um, final, uh, quarter of like my purpose 

Josh W: mm-hmm.

Paul G: In life. And, uh, what that looks like and I have no idea, but like, let's go. That's super cool. Let's do it. 

Josh W: So. Kids, grandkids, legacy, final quarter of, of your life. And we'll talk about the final quarter. We're about to step in round four, but I'd like you to, to answer that question too, from Callis. So he almost gets a bogo.

He's gonna, he loves a good deal. So, uh, what are you most, Jude, what are you most excited about over the next five years and why? 

Jude D: Well, you've heard me talk about priorities, all the Fs, you know, it's always faith, family, fortune, friends, and, uh, you know, I, I say the fifth F is just forget about it.

Everything else does matter. Forget about it. Once you, uh, I, once you get to that level, so, um, it's in that order, um, you know, faith, you know, always looking for ways to enrich faith and, uh, and grow deeper, uh, in that, teach it to my kids. You know, my oldest is 12 and so we're starting to have really. Good conversations and, you know, we're transitioning from childhood into manhood and I'm loving it.

It's a little bit scary and a little bit deep, and sometimes you have to really step outside of your comfort zone to start having like, real conversations with your kids. Uh, but I can't wait to see them, you know, go through all of those changes. It, it's funny because I've had so many people tell me, you know, you have little kids, it's little problems.

You have big kids, you have big problems. And it's like, well, I'm, I'm ready for the big problems. Let's, let's bring it on. This is what I do. Yeah. So I mean it, otherwise, what are we doing here? Uh, you can't keep 'em little forever. So I'm, I'm excited to, you know, go through that next journey. Um, and yeah, like everything after that, you know, uh, business and friends and everything else, those are all important and great too.

But you know, it, it's all family. Whenever you're talking about the next five years. And what's the most exciting. 

Josh W: All right, we're getting ready to enter the final round. Imagine me walking out with a, a sign that says Round four, final round. And this is, this is a topic near and dear to Jude's heart is, uh, the exit.

So, Jude, why don't you kick us off round four with talking about, you know, what you do. You know, maybe like we did yesterday, maybe that one minute overview of your exit, you know, uh, experience and what, what we do with, with clients. And then let's talk about, let's throw exits on the table. And maybe something that's gonna be coming up for you, Paul, is what gets in the way of the mindset of the exit.

So moving from scale to potential exit and what gets in the mindset. So Jude, introduce us into round four, the exit. 

Jude D: Well, I'm still stuck on Paul's mission. Love God, serve others, and die with no regrets. Um. I feel like that applies in everything you do. Um, you know, for business owners, um, thinking about the sale of their business is a lot like thinking about death.

It's, you know, the great unknown beyond this thing that encapsulates every part of my life. Um, and, and in particular that happens with people who, uh, you know, like Paul was mentioning earlier, just have nothing outside of business. They're so over-focused on their business and how to grow it. Um, and so I, I use this analogy a lot.

People, um, want to plan their exit the same way they want to do estate planning, to plan their death, and what happens whenever they die. And, you know, how many people have, you know, their full estate plan and will already thought out and buttoned up? Well, I can tell you the stats say it's about, you know, 20%, uh, across adults in the United States.

Not great numbers. You know, you would hope that would be close to a hundred percent. People would've really thought this issue through. Same thing happens with business owners. They like to think about the exit right at the moment that they're ready to hang it up and toss somebody else the keys. And so what we see constantly is business owners coming to us and saying, um, you know, never thought about this before.

I haven't built a management team underneath me. Every part of the business is wrapped around me. I wear every hat. Uh, they'll even, you know, brag about it a little bit like a badge of honor. Like, this business couldn't survive without me because I do everything and I'm, I'm involved in every aspect of it.

And it's like, oh, okay, well it's not sellable. That's, that's actually a bad thing. I know you think it's a good thing that you're so involved, but the best thing you can do in business is figure out how to transition everything to someone else. So that you have an awesome team running the business and it's, it's viable on its own.

Uh, so if you're trying to die in your business with no regrets, that's, that's the way you do it. You build that right team. You build something that sustains beyond you. Uh, you have a business plan that isn't wrapped around, do I know people who wanna buy our product? Or do I, I have the knowhow about how to manufacture it or how to distribute it.

And instead, build a team and a process that can survive the generations. 

Josh W: What gets in the way? So we, let's just say we've successfully scaled the company, we've employed the right operating system, we've brought the right team in, we've got this thing moving. We've, we have some clear mission objectives.

What gets in the way of the mindset of preparing for that exit for the businesses you work with? 

Paul G: Yeah. Well, Jew was a hundred percent right. I, I think one of the things I run into in the non-profit and for-profit spaces, people wait too long or too late. To start thinking about it. So they have great intentionality about their business, but they don't have intentionality about their exit, and then it just comes upon them and they're like, I'm tired, I'm too old.

What do I do? So I would say like, start thinking about that succession planning sooner than later, even if it doesn't come into play, even if, you know, but it will eventually come to that point. So like, start planning for that. Now that succession planning, I was, you know, meeting with a, a not-for-profit, it's around a $20 million a year, not-for-profit.

So fairly large. Uh, and they don't have a succession plan for the next leadership. Why They don't feel like they have the right team in place yet there, there's this tension there and, and that needs to happen. It needs to be a conversation that's on the table. It needs to be part of it, I think for either the CEO president or the owner.

I think, um, there is a, um, you, you talked about it earlier in the show. Um, it's like their baby. Letting go of this baby that they brought into the world and raised is super scary. So one of the things I did when I was younger, I started a nonprofit, ran it for eight years, and the hardest thing I ever did was to hand it off to someone else.

And I didn't think it would be that hard. And it was the hardest thing I ever did. 'cause it is like a baby you give birth to and you grow and you, I can't imagine someone who's owned a business for 30 years trying to do that. And so there is this tension, this friction and, and kind of this letting, letting go.

I think building the plan before that is extremely helpful. Kinda like you were saying with kids, Jude is like, you gotta start having those conversations with your kids when they're 12, 13 through their teenage years. So they become a young adult talking about budget or sexuality or faith is not like, wait, why are you bringing this up?

Well, we've been talking about it for years in the business world is start thinking about that planning now, what does it look like? Uh, and so that you have peace. In 

Jude D: walking away when it's time that, that really made me think of something when you're, you're saying that because so many business owners ask us, well, when do I tell my employees?

Can we wait all the way until closing before I tell my employees that the business is for sale? It's like, man, no. Like they should be ready for this. Yeah. Like they should know that you're 65 years old and you don't wanna do this until you die. Right. And if you've had that conversation for years and you've been talking to your management team about how I'm grooming you to take over this one day, 

Paul G: 100%.

Jude D: Yeah. And it, it's just an easy conversation. If you've done that and you've built the team that's ready to step in whenever you're gone, it's so hard whenever you just hit 'em with it one day and they had no idea it was coming. Yep. 

Josh W: This is the deal podcast. Right? So we talk about deals. Mm-hmm. I'm gonna ask both of you this question, what is the perfect deal for you?

So people listening in, they go, Ooh, that's me. So what's the perfect deal look like for you in terms of a client you wish to serve or an opportunity you wish to dive into? What are you looking for right now? 

Paul G: Gosh, that's an interesting kind of kinda statement. Um, the perfect, I, I like the non-perfect deal 'cause I, I like fixing things.

Uh, I like the ability to see where things are a little bit off and broken, but I think if someone is looking to pitch the perfect deal, I'm gonna go back to June. Like putting the right process and team in place is the best thing that you could do right now to pitch your deal, because that brings more value than saying, oh, we have a product.

But if you don't have a great team and culture, like you don't realize like the people around your product bring more value than the actual product. To the person that wants to buy you. So that's extremely important to actually bringing more value and money to, to the deal that you want to make. At least that's my thoughts.

Josh W: So we, because of that, we're changing the name of this podcast from the Deal Podcast to the Not So Perfect Deal podcast. I don't think there is a 

Paul G: perfect deal, right? There's, there's always some, you know, some little, you know, hanging chads around them. So, 

Jude D: yeah, I, I think most people assume that buyers want to see big EBITDA and a low multiple.

Mm-hmm. And, uh, you know, they've, they've got half of that, right? You do want big ebitda. You want a business that's winning and thriving and, you know, not just big EBITDA this year, but like, it's gonna grow next year and the year after that, and the year after that. Um, but low multiple businesses are ones that, you know, they're on a downward trajectory or they've got a lot of.

Rough edges and things that are wrong with the business because the owner hasn't invested. And most good Myers don't want that. You know, we want great companies, we want companies with awesome management teams, an awesome plan EBITDA that's on the way up. And most good buyers understand that we're gonna have to pay up big in order to get that kind of company.

Uh, but it's okay because we can build a plan to take it from there to the next level and the next level beyond that. Um, it's so hard to buy a failing company and fix it. So, you know, in, in the world of deal makers, much better to buy a company that's on the way up with a lot of, a lot of room to run. Um, you know, I, I think it's, it's funny because most sellers assume that people are trying to beat up their EBITDA and beat up that multiple as much as they can.

Really, we're just trying to figure out, you know, is this company scalable? Can it get to that next level 

Josh W: bonus round? Right? Let's just say there was a tie and we we're going into a bonus round. Let's talk about after the exit. We had a liquidity event. We just sold the company, we just won the lot, whatever the case may be.

Talk to us about some of the challenges you, you think deal makers, face, and maybe what's some hope for them on the other side of the deal. 

Paul G: I think studies are shown like for like longevity in life, that, um, having a sense of purpose after your work, like not slowing down in some way, shape, or form is extremely important to your longevity, to your health, mental, spiritual.

And what I've found, like, and you see it is like, you know, maybe generations before us retired at 50, and then they were like, what do I do? You know, and then yada yada. I, a lot of business owners don't have much of a passion and a purpose and a mission outside of their work. And so then when they do sell or retire, they're like, what am I, what do I do?

You know? And then you see this downward trajectory. On, on, on their life and that that's not what God wants for us. Like I just think like you should run the race until you just don't breathe anymore. So like what? Find your, your purpose and your mission before you get out and retire or sell, because that's gonna propel you that next season of life.

And maybe that's your family and grandkids and like giving back to your local community church, whatever the case may be. But you, it, it, like, I would say like that would be my encouragement, uh, for everyone on, on the back end of like, you know, retirement or selling or whatever the case may be. 

Jude D: Yeah. I developed a little bit of an obsession early in my law practice of asking every client going through a sale, so what's next?

You know, what, what are you gonna do after the closing? Um, and it, it's funny because, you know, like anybody can own a business, anybody can be a seller of a business. But I mean, the demographics are pretty narrow. You. 90% of the people going through an exit are men between, you know, 50 and 70 years old. Um, that's just, that's the typical demographics.

And, you know, you see so many of 'em that say, well, I love to fish, I love to play golf. And I just kind of joke every time I, so, are you gonna play golf every day? Are you gonna catch all the fish, like every fish in the ocean? Um, what are you gonna do the rest of the time? And, you know, some of 'em have such a good, well thought out plan and other ones don't.

Um, and I find the ones that don't have a plan and don't have a purpose beyond their business, um. Tend to be miserable after closing. Uh, very often they develop health problems. Mm-hmm. Uh, I've seen a lot of 'em go to their grave early. Yeah. Because they sold their business at 60 years old. They had so much purpose when they owned it, and whenever they didn't own it anymore, they didn't have a reason to get up every morning.

Um, and so having that plan is so important. Um, there's, you know, some great business owners I can think of, you know, one in particular comes to mind, husband and wife, that own a, a business that we've looked at. And I knew I liked them so much before they, they've thought about their business in all the right ways, made all the right investments.

And really they've, they've grown their business in a way that makes me want to pay that big multiple for it. And, um, talking to them about what they want to do in the next stage of life, it's, you know, they want to build one of these purpose-driven neighborhoods that's sustainable and helps low income people to raise themselves up.

It's like. Man, all of that entrepreneurial bent, all of that, you know, stuff that made them great as business owners, they're gonna take that to that next phase of life and do it again, but they're doing it for other people and giving back. Yeah. And if you have a plan like that, oh my gosh. Like you're gonna live forever.

Yeah. It's unbelievable. I love that. Um, you know, I've had great conversations too with, you know, people that don't really understand. I can remember one time I helped a business owner sell his company and, uh, I asked him what he's gonna do next, and he said, oh, you know, I, I really hope to spend some time with the grandkids.

I said, oh, okay. They live around here. And he said, well, no, they live in Florida. He said, oh, okay. So what are you doing here? And. Like nobody had asked him that question before and they put the house for sale and moved to Florida. It was like, there you go. It was like, oh my gosh. Yeah. The one thing I wanted to do was spend time with the grandkids, but they live, you know, a couple hundred miles away.

Um, and so I think it's so important to meet with a guy like Paul or, um, you know, if you do it on your own and you have a lot of self-reflection, great. But really think about what that next phase of life looks like. When I get up every day, what am I gonna do? What's my purpose gonna be? Yeah. 

Josh W: Man, I love this conversation.

Yeah. But we're running outta time, and what I want to do here is, uh, for the people in the audience, I want, I'd like, I'm asking a favor for you to do two things here. One is go follow Paul, the Paul George Show. Give him an awesome review. Let him know how awesome he is. Take a, take a listen to the, uh, his episode on the Momentum Maori, and maybe writing your own obituary.

That's the two that I referenced here. So, you know, his contact information will be in the show notes. So if you have a business and you're looking for, you know, learning how to build the right team and the, the right processes to, to really grow that, his contact information will be in the show notes. I wanna encourage you, I'm asking you a favor, reach out to him and, and follow his work there.

And then also our, our cohost, Jude did such a great job. If you have questions about, you know, selling your company and you want to have a conversation to someone who's done it. A ton of times for other people and a ton of times for himself. I really want to encourage you to reach out to Jude and just start that conversation.

What, what should I do after my exit? What should I do to prepare for the exit? What should I, you know, what kind of purpose could I tie into, you know, those kind of events in my life? He's a, he's a great mentor and, uh, a great friend, so I encourage you to do that. And then, heck, as a bonus man, if you got extra energy, would love a, uh, an honest review on our show The Deal Podcast.

I hope you've enjoyed this. If you are a deal maker and you like talking about buying and selling businesses, if you'd like to talk about scaling and, and, and, and having these, you know, meaningful conversations around deals and what drives deal makers, head over to the deal podcast.com, fill out a quick form, maybe get the conversation started and have you on the show till then, talk to you all on the next episode.

Cheers, guys.