Stuck in the Founder Trap? How to Free Yourself From the Day to Day with Jeff Martin

Joshua Wilson: 0:00

Good day everybody. Welcome to the Deal Podcast, man. I'm so glad that you guys are, are tuning in, and we're grateful for that. The, the mission and purpose of this show is to inspire the future generation of deal makers, people looking to get in the world of mergers, acquisitions, banking, uh, high level finance, maybe entrepreneurship. And with entrepreneurship comes a lot of, um. Challenges that you may face, you may not. You might be one of those unicorn people that you know that just breeze through entrepreneurship hasn't been my experience and a lot of our guests experience, so that's why we bring on the guests so that they can share their experiences with you and you can learn from other people's mistakes and maybe not make those yourself. So as you're listening to these stories, um, our ask, we're gonna ask you a favor, two things. One, reach out to the guests and say, thanks for sharing their time and their wisdom with you. And then if you find this episode helpful and you think that it might be helpful for someone else, maybe like it, maybe drop a comment, maybe subscribe, maybe give us a review, that'd be super helpful. But I think even more important than that is sharing it with someone who maybe could use this before they cash out their government pension. Go all in on an idea. You might want them to listen to Destin's interview of how to talk about, you know, startup ideas. But anyways, enough about that. Let's dive into today's episode. Jeff, welcome to podcast.

Jude David: 1:26

Hey, thanks for having me. I really am happy to be here.

Joshua Wilson: 1:29

Yeah. Now you have a podcast yourself.

Jude David: 1:31

Yeah.

Joshua Wilson: 1:31

Why don't you give a, a shout out to your podcast?

Jude David: 1:33

Well, it's called Lead Grow Live, and, uh, we at Company Growth Academy are all about leading your people, growing your company and living your life. And that last part is a big deal for me because we all go into business for this dream of entrepreneurial freedom and, and everything that a company can deliver for you. But so often we, uh, we, we get, we go off course and, um. We, we, we have to focus on our people. We have to focus on growth and value. Uh, but we do it to live our life. So, uh, we have, we have business owners and entrepreneurs that come on, um, and we learn lessons. Just like you kind of mentioned in the intro. It's, uh, let's learn the lessons now so we don't have to pay for 'em. But you also said that. There are unicorns out there. I've never met one. I've never met one.

Joshua Wilson: 2:27

Yeah. Well, cool. Well, honored to have you here. It's always, uh, nice talking with other, uh, podcasters in the industry and we definitely wanna lift you up our audience. Uh, please go check out his podcast as well. Jude, why don't you set the, uh, set the tone today and, and do a do an intro, man.

Jude David: 2:45

Well, Jeff, we're so happy to have you on. Um, I was on Jeff's podcast a couple months ago and it was a, a very great experience. Um, yeah, I think a lot of people go into business thinking that they will be the unicorn. Like, but I have so many good ideas and I'm just gonna tell people how to do things and then they will do it that way. And that's never been my experience. Yeah. No, that's, that's the thing that slaps you in the face as a new business owner that, um, you know, it's more about building a coalition than it is about having the right ideas. Um. Jeff, I'd love to hear your ideas. I mean, as a business consultant, as a guy who helps people to grow their businesses, you know, how do you help people overcome the challenges of communication and building a team and all the, all the little things that add up? Yeah, and that, what a great question because that is the blocking tackling. Throwing, catching, right. You, you gotta get the basics. But you said communication, and I'm gonna tell you if I, if I go to companies one after another, I hear the challenges, right? And, and, and it's always related to people execution. But communication is how you do both. It's, it's how you get through, you know, and explain your vision so they see it. Uh. So communication is, is one of the keys. I've always said, man, if I just, instead of being more of a generalist or more of a exit planning type, uh, consultant, advisor, if I was just a communication advisor, I could, I could kill it. But it's, it's really and truly a, about leading people and then intentionally growing when you're ready to grow. And, and then, uh, you know. Making the most out of what you came to do because like you say, it's like my first book was called Business Mulligan, right? It's we go into business and we have the ideas you're talking about. And most of the time we go in because we were better than our boss was. Right? We, we should be the ones making the decisions. And then we get into business and we literally open up and it's like your golf. B ball it go, it goes right off course. And then you have to go, well wait, how do I get this back on course? And it's this day to day effort of focusing, adjusting, and replaying like you would a, a golf ball. That's fantastic. Um, you know, there's the old saying, those who can't do teach. Uh, and I think that applies to a lot of consultants. A lot of places you go, you know, they've, they've never been in business or they've never successfully had a business, and so they go into consulting and they wanna teach other people how to do it. Sure. Um, you're not that guy. You know, you've had four successful exits for companies that you ran. Uh, tell us about that. Tell us about your background and, and what led you into this. Well, I, uh, I spent a lot of time with my grandfather, who I would put up in the entrepreneur Hall of fame. I, I mean, this guy was, uh, a special, special guy, but when I was growing up, um, there was a lot of redistricting and schools, and so I would get dropped off at my grandparents' house. I would either walk to elementary school or catch the bus, and I did that for years. And so I kept seeing him at the house. And he was, uh, he was, they had people coming in and out of his house. Uh, every now and again, he would go to his office. He would, um. He was making deals nonstop. And, and I, rather than going all that I learned from observing. And so when I went into business, the first thing I did was real estate. Um, and, and I had an apartment complex. I had a few rent houses. Um, and I said, this is gonna be great passive income, regardless of what I get into. I will, I will. Um. I will keep this. And then I started, you know, uh, going into other lines of work and I had a paramedical company where I was, I was kind of the guy who did the insurance physicals when you got life insurance. And then I became the guy who had 23 other people running the roads of South Louisiana, um, doing insurance physical. So I ended up. Exiting the real estate game just as an asset sale and just, just one, one thing after another. I kept spinning things off. Um, in my paramedical business, I, I literally had three of those different, uh, I would call 'em clinics and, uh, I, I did management takeovers on that, you know, so I, I sold to management. Um, and, and then I started a DNA testing company. Uh, really.'cause of the other, uh, clinic business, the paramedical deal, and we were the first of its kind. We ended up franchising. Uh, we grew very, very rapidly and um, I think I was a little unprepared for the growth because we went from being one business selling DNA testing to be in three businesses overnight. Where now I'm selling businesses and now I'm helping service and support businesses. So I really had three businesses in one big company. And, um, I think emotionally and, uh, I guess by that experience, uh, wise. Uh, I wasn't prepared to be a franchisor even though I was a franchisor, and so I was able to exit that company and it, it, that was a blessing and that's how I got where I am. Um, I, I knew that I had been coaching my team from. The, at the first minute I got into business, I had this culture of coaching. My time I spent in the military, it was about lifting people up and, and developing them and growing them. And so when I decided to go into. The world of coaching and advising. Um, it really was, you know, from all the lessons I've learned, good and bad, and there are a lot of both, you know, good and bad. I learned from my clients, I learned from, uh, other business owners and, uh, that, that's what drives me is, is the business owner. That's a little bit of my history. Do you regret. Going into franchising unprepared, or was it one of those pivotal things? That's good. You had to do that to learn. It's a good, I I had to do it and, and I have this core belief that we, we must take a, a, when we look back, we have to appreciate where we've come from and what we've done and have this, this, um, appreciative perspective of where we came from. And so, no, I don't regret it. It was hard. It was, it was really expensive, you know, expensive lessons, but, uh, I, I would, I would not do it again in, in that market'cause we were the first of its kind. Um, but I had to do that to get here, to serve other people. I. Yeah. So how, how do you help clients as they're thinking through things like that? Like, do we franchise or do we, whatever, how do you help 'em think through that so that they're prepared whenever they get to that point? I would, the, the safe answer is it's case by case, right? It's a, it, it really is true, truly case by case, but you're either gonna be equipped for it or you're not. The the, um, product. Or the market you're in will dictate whether that's a good idea or not. And I'm gonna tell you, um, there's a lot to first mover advantage, but there's also a lot to this concept of pioneers being the ones with the arrows in their back. And that's what I was, you know, um, DNA testing prior to me, uh, franchising was, was an industry where you just had laboratories. That were introducing, uh, commercialization of DNA testing, right? And, and so I got into it, um, understanding that, man, I could, I could be the marketing arm of this. I didn't want to be the laboratory. I wanted to be the marketing and service and support arm of that, and I wanted to bring locations in cities throughout the country. And so when I, I literally went to a laboratory in Houston and I asked him, look, could you, if we were to reverse these roles and in me, instead of me collecting for you if we were to market and, and be that, that marketing and sales arm, um. Will you be my reference laboratory? And so we literally had to put together a contract and let that, uh, those roles play out. I went from doing about two collections a month to doing about 50 tests a month where I was, I was selling because it was a pent up demand. You know, DNA testing had not really been introduced publicly to individuals. And so, um, the fact that. It was there, it was a good timing, but man, you talk about, uh, it's the only way it's done today. Yeah. It's literally the only way it's done today is through reference labs. So let's fast forward to today and, you know, you're helping business owners. Um, you know, I usually say that you, you need to be built to sell. Um, and you know, I, I think that's a pretty common phrase in the exit planning world. Um. Yeah, you don't need to enter exit planning two years before you sell. No. Trying to figure out how to get your company ready for sale. You need to be thinking from the moment you conceive of your company to the moment you leave your company, how do I build this to sell so that I'm not the most important and most valuable piece of my business? You know? Tell us about what you do now. Yeah. Like how, how you help people to get their companies ready. Well, one, you're a hundred percent right with, with, with that, and, you know. W business, uh, strategy starts with exit strategy. Just like you said, it, it's not this thing you think of, of the last year or two before you want to exit. Um, value. Creation value enhancement and focusing on value first is really important. So many people think profit revenue, profit revenue, and that that's where their mind is. And when you make decisions based solely on revenue and profit, um. You're not going to necessarily increase the value of your company, increase the value of the, uh, leadership of your team. Right, and, and the value that you bring to your community or your customers. And so we take a, a value first mindset. And if you, if you're focusing on the things that really will drive value, like your, your customer relationships, your, your people, your team, your culture, your structure, you know, your systems, processes, the income and the profit have a way of working out. You know, it's value first, and then everything, it's, it's like in football or any other sport, you do the blocking and tackling, the scoreboard will reflect. And so if the focus is on value, um, I believe that everything will shine and, and you'll be better off when you get to the point, you know that one of the keys is. Is readiness and attractiveness. Um, you can be really attractive on the outside. And then when somebody comes in and wants to look under the hood, they say, look, they're, they're just not ready. You know, it's like having a really shiny car without an engine, you know? And, and, um, let's get the engine ready. Let's get the, the outside polished and clean. But you have to work on both because there are too many things that can happen. Over a, an entire life cycle of a company. And it's, uh, it's not always gonna be at when you say it's gonna be, the timing is gonna be different for everyone. There's things like death, you know, uh, of a business partner, disagreement with a business partner. Um, you could get ill and, and become ill and, and all of a sudden your whole world changes and now you need to exit. And so had you not. Started prior to now, um, you would likely be more valuable and it'll be an more optimal time and optimal market value that you'd get from it because you started early on. So when, when you say value, um, you know, let's say we're talking about a mid-market business, 10 or$20 million in revenue, you know, what makes that company have value? You know, what are the. The hallmarks that you're looking for to say, while they really focused on value and the revenue followed? Uh, well, I, I would say let's look at things that make it more risky. So you have somebody who wants to come and invest in your company, you have a buyer. Um, if there are things that are risky in a, in a 10 million and above company, you're, you're most likely looking at, um, sales. It could be broken, you know, they could be getting a lot more of it. Um, leadership, you know, if you have a, a couple of experts that their attention is divided and they're running multiple departments and you haven't focused your expertise, um, it's gonna be tough, uh, to be attractive to someone else who's coming in. Um, obviously sales is one thing, but profit's another, you know what I mean? So if you are, um. It. Sales are great, but if you don't, uh, if you can't turn a profit or, or it's not optimized, then you're not gonna get what you hope to get. You're gonna get what the market will bear. And if they look at any part of your company as risky, they're gonna devalue that, you know, um, if it's less risk. They're gonna give you a premium, you know, they'll pay a premium for something that's less risky. And so, um, there are so many parts of that. I think one of the biggest parts is, um, owner dependency. I. Is most likely one of the things that, uh, is riskiest because if I have to replace you, what is it gonna take to replace you? Uh, especially if you have a lot of, uh, experience and knowledge in that industry. Your relationships are huge. It, it's, it's really gonna be hard. Also, uh, customer centralization. If you have one really big customer or two really, really big customers, government contracts or, and if something changes there, that's a major risk. So it, it's about reducing all of that. And on the other side, there are things that you can do to enhance the value. You know, th think of something like recurring revenue models, subscription models, those are huge drivers of, uh, of value enhancement.

Joshua Wilson: 18:29

We did, um, thanks for sharing. Glad you're here. We did an interview, um, yesterday or the day before.

Jude David: 18:38

I, I don't,

Joshua Wilson: 18:40

I don't remember exactly when that, uh, interview was, but it was with John Perkins and, um, he said one of the things that he like was so passionate about was this idea of hiring a business coach.

Jude David: 18:52

Mm-hmm.

Joshua Wilson: 18:52

He says, we, you know, where do you get your success from? He's like, the people I hang out with, and I hired a business coach that's one side of the house where they're like, I will always have a business coach of helping me get to where I want to go. Kind of like helping me achieve that next level of. Fill in the blank. Right. It might be specific strategic in that one core in or overall growth. Let's play with the other side of the coin where, you know, Jude said something, he's like, those who can't do teach. And we've seen a lot of, you know, online gurus out there, uh, telling the community, do this or do that. Right. And, uh, you know, we wanted to let, let's wrestle on that side of the coin for people who might be a little bit more skeptical. On the, the business coaching aspect of it, you know, what is your views in that and do you experience any of that skepticism before people, you know, work with you? What are, what are your thoughts?

Jude David: 19:46

Yeah, I would say the skepticism. Is, is reducing

Joshua Wilson: 19:52

mm-hmm.

Jude David: 19:53

Um, in the marketplace, right? If, if you go back 30 years, um, the very first time you kind of heard of that was a personal trainer, and you go, well, why do you need a personal trainer? And, and people will always say, well, you have coaches if you play sports. And, and then you, you, um, you bring in consultants there. So there's a, there's a big difference between a coach, a consultant, and an advisor. Okay. Um, coaches really are facilitators of change. Right. And, and, and they work with you to really help you move forward on your stated goals. Like you said, you wanted to go here. But your actions say something different and, and it's really an accountability partner, someone to challenge you. Most coaches have the experience because they have done it, like jut said. Um, but if they're going to really challenge you and get you to grow, that's what it's all about. They're gonna ask probing questions. They're gonna get you to start to think about, um. Change and, and what it's gonna take to do change.'cause like a coach in a college football team, they can't get in and suit up and go out and play. They'd probably like to, 'cause they used to be able to do it, but now they're there to develop their, their players. And, um, when you look at the world of coaching, consulting, and business, um, it's. It's becoming more and more acceptable and, and people aren't, um, leery of that. It, you know, I, I would say, and life coaches out there are gonna kill me. Um, there is nothing at all wrong with a life coach and there are people that can facilitate change, but it probably got a little bit of a bad rap 'cause it was soft and squishy. Where business coaching, uh, usually they, they have a specialty and they focus and they drive change, right? Um, life coaching ha has its place and I truly do believe it has its place because you have to have your personal house in order, um, in order, especially in, in the world of exit planning. You know, uh, that's one of the big areas we focus on. But, um. Yeah, to answer your question, it's, it's very prevalent. I do believe it's required. I have a coach, I've always had coaches and, um, you know, they, they will just allow, they'll hold you accountable and they'll allow you to become who you said you wanted to become, because you don't just open the doors and have 30 years experience. You gotta go and get that.

Joshua Wilson: 22:45

When it comes to a business coach, having your own coach, I think sometimes the assumption is, is, you know, you've achieved four exits, for example, right? So someone you know who wants an exit might look to you before hiring, you know, Jude to, to do that. So you, you help 'em get ready. Jude helps execute the deal. It seems like a, a good path. Why would a business coach. Need a coach who've had, who's had a successful career. Right? Like, talk to us about that and that the mindset behind that.

Jude David: 23:19

So, so if, um, if you are more experienced than me in sales and I have found a choke point in my own business mm-hmm. And, um, I need to develop my skills in sales, should I ignore that or should I pursue an opportunity to find someone who can help me accomplish what I say I want to do? Right. So if, if you're thinking about coaching or, or uh, getting help, you can either go and do it on your own or you can usually fast track that if the person that you work with actually has the experience, they, you trust them. And they are willing to tell you, tell you your blind spots and tell you what you're missing. And, and you know what's so funny about it is, um, I'm, I'm not. The smartest guy in the world, but I'm not deep inside your business, and it's a very different perspective when I'm able to look at your, I, I just went to a prospective client today and it is an amazing business. Um, been around for a while, but because I'm an outsider looking in, I can see, I can see things from a mile away that, that people that are in it. In this whirlwind of activity, the producing what they produce every single day. They may know it, but it's really hard to do it when you're inside there. So I would, I would, um, tell anyone out there who wants to improve, wants to, um, achieve, you know, something that they don't know how to do it. Go find somebody that's at least two weeks ahead of you.

Joshua Wilson: 25:13

Yeah. And I, I think when, when I look at coaches, you know, we've interviewed a handful Yeah. Um, probably hundreds over the years of doing this. And one of the things that I find is the, the coaches who stick around the longest or who have the greatest impact are ones that themselves are, they have coaching. Someone's helping them with their stuff. Mm-hmm. Even if they've had, you know, very large exits or successes, but then also helping backwards. But I think that's in life in general, as we walk through life, you walk with people who are your, your peers. We're supposed to go backwards and, you know, mentor and, and lift up people behind. But then we always need someone that we can look to. For discipleship, for wisdom, for direction, and that's pretty cool.

Jude David: 26:01

Yeah.

Joshua Wilson: 26:01

I'm gonna get it a little personal with you. What specifically are you, um, working on in your life where you need a coach?

Jude David: 26:08

Well, I, I, I walk with a very important friend of mine. Um, he happens to be a deacon in the Catholic church. And you, you sort of touched on spirituality there. Mm-hmm. And I'll tell you, Mike. My biggest challenge and I'm really working on it and I'm, I feel like I've made a lot of progress over the years. It's giving up control to God. You know, I think, I think most business owners, entrepreneurs were sort of control freaks anyway. Yeah. And I, I know that God's will will be done, but I think I can grab the wheel and drive and. Understanding that he's in control and that, uh, I need to give up. And let him do it, um, has been really a difficult journey for me. Um, however, I've made a lot of progress and I'm, I'm so thankful. I am. I'm married to a woman who, she's also a control freak, but she's, she's farther along on her spiritual journey than I am. And, and, uh, I decided a long time ago that. You know, in, in marriages and friendships, you can grow at different rates and grow apart. And so I am chasing her as fast as I can. Uh, you know, a learning, uh, she's wrapping up a master's degree in theology from, uh, Notre Dame. And, um, it's, it's kind of tough to chase that, you know? Yeah. Because she's, she's very, very knowledgeable.

Joshua Wilson: 27:51

Yeah. Special. What do you, what would you say is your. S like your specialty, your superpower, something that as you're walking around looking at business, you said you're, you have a high curiosity for businesses. You'd love to dig in and, and learn more about business. It's, it's, it's a passion. It's a joy of yours.

Jude David: 28:09

Yeah.

Joshua Wilson: 28:10

What would you say is your superpower in the business world?

Jude David: 28:13

It, I would say being able to see choke points and weaknesses, uh, opportunities for growth. Um, and it's that perspective, it really does come from that perspective, um, of being able to see like, oh, golly, I wonder if they're trying to work on A, B, C, or D, right? Mm-hmm. Um, that is one of my, my superpowers. Um, and then being able to work with owners. Right, because again, I, I've walked their walk. I, I know exactly what they're going through. What I have found though, is, and this has been a real blessing and a real lesson, if I'm truly gonna help the owner, I gotta help him with his people. I have a help him with his systems, uh, in processes. Um, they generally. Need to be freed up from the day to day so they can go and do what they dreamed of. And it's really, really hard once you get into that business owner workday, to free yourself to have entrepreneurial freedom. And so, um, I love working with business owners. But I have fallen in love with the teams and, and the, the people and, uh, the frontline from, you know, top to bottom. I, I've fallen in love with, with developing those folks.

Joshua Wilson: 29:43

Give us an idea of an ideal partner profile for you. What's an ideal client look like for you? Size or number of employees? Stage of business. Give us an idea,

Jude David: 29:52

you know, um. Mine is is pretty clearly the second stage I, I look at four stages of development. You typically have a startup, then you have a developing. Business where you're trying to push over this threshold from business to company, and then you get into a growth phase. Uh, the growth phase typically happens before you go into maturity. So I, I look at four levels, uh, startup developing growth maturity. The reason I call my company, company Growth Academy is because I try to take you out of development phase. Into growth phase. Um, that is, it's really harder because there are some 20 year startups out there, they just haven't even pushed to toward developing. And what I mean by developing is they've begun to, uh, develop relationships with their vendors. They've begun to develop their clientele, their people, uh, maybe a leadership team, but instead of having true leadership teams, they have key people. What happens though, is they wear those guys out because they know they can count on those key people and, and they know that they need to get out of the day to day. Operations, but they have a difficult time doing it. So I put you over that threshold. Um, Jude said, you know, build a business to sell it. And I agree a hundred percent. I just take a different spin on it. Build your business to sell a company. Nobody wants to buy a business. Because that's just buying a job for the most part, in the smaller guys. Um, so that's the stage. Most of my people have 10 to 40 employees. Um, they're operating under 5 million. It's kind of the micro market out there. Uh, 5 million in sales. Um, I will also tell you that most of my owners are second generation owners. Whether they bought the business or um. Basically bought a a, a relative out or, or just transitioned into that role. Um, but that's not required. I have a lot of, uh, of founders that, that have become there. The deal is though, you get to that point and there are so many different ceilings, you get to that, that $5 million. Point and everything has to change. Your systems have to change, your coaching has to change. Um, the people unfortunately have to change. Now, I like the idea of developing people and, and it. Like encouraging change in people, but there are, sometimes you move through these thresholds and you need a $10 million a year guy. You, you, you know what I mean? Yeah. Or you need a $10 million a year system. Um, beyond that though, is where I get into the exit planning and I, I will actually use a different model, uh, the, the CIPA model, the one provided through, uh, exit Planning Institute. Uh. As, as a value growth coach or advisor. Um, that's for the larger companies. But my guy, I've, I've walked the walk of the 5 million a year guy, uh, you know, um, although I, uh, I have explored and, and done fairly well with the larger companies. But

Joshua Wilson: 33:28

yeah, one of our, um, one of our great joys is, and you said that you. You were looking forward to this. Well, here it is, is, uh, we connect our guest from our in virtual, or I'm sorry, our in studio guest from, uh, through questions they leave behind a question.

Jude David: 33:47

Yeah.

Joshua Wilson: 33:47

And we ask it. This is such a great idea. Yeah. So, uh, did you share the question today?

Jude David: 33:52

Uh, this question's from Kim Boudreaux and Sarah Clement. Okay. At Catholic Charities. Oh 2 2 1 1. Right. Yeah. That's great. And, uh.

Joshua Wilson: 34:02

They did it right with blank. So I remember what they, what they asked at the end. Uh, they were gonna ask, um, they wrote about, they didn't write it, but they were talking about, Hey, what do you wanna write? And they, they were so passionate about getting the pictures that, uh, that the. They getting ready. It's so funny. But they were gonna say, you know, when it comes to growth, because they knew that we were gonna talk about growth is what, you know, what are the, what do you think is the main thing stopping a company from growing? From entering that growth stage? Yeah, yeah. Like what is, what do you think is the biggest hurdle there?

Jude David: 34:34

Uh, the biggest hurdle is the owner. You know, it, it's, um, they struggle with that getting out of the, the day-to-day business owner workday, you know, a a again, they, they, they prepared, they dreamed of this, this lifestyle that they were gonna achieve and they got stuck. Um, uh, uh, if I can, can I give a A one B? Yeah, please. That's number one.

Joshua Wilson: 35:04

Yeah.

Jude David: 35:04

Yeah. One B is, um. The development of people. You know, I, I believe as people grow, companies grow, but the owner is people too, right? So it, it's about helping every single person on your team develop and grow into the, the leader they need to become the supervisor they need to become, or, or the technician, right? You just. W we miss out on the personal development of people because we demand so much on the professional side. Um, it's about a balancing both personal and professional development.

Joshua Wilson: 35:49

When it comes to specific industry, 10 to 40, you know, employees under 5 million, second generation, that's kind of like the, we're we're starting to get a, a clear picture. Are there industries that you, uh, tend to gravitate towards or are there industries you're like, you know, what not, not a good fit for?

Jude David: 36:06

Well, and that's a great question. For the most part, I've, I've worked with. Service-based. Mm-hmm. Uh, companies. Um, but, uh, in, in one of the businesses that I own, I gained some experience in the e-commerce play. And, and I like that, but I would say in, um, in merit medical. Like physical therapy. I've worked with a lot of physical therapy clinics, chiropractors, I like the IT space. Um, I love the recurring revenue model of, of IT companies. Um, and I, I guess I just like the people around that, but if I had to say generally it's a service-based companies, um, where the owner. Must remove themself from the day to day. They, they are the technicians and, and they are the service. At some point you gotta say, look, I gotta have crews doing this stuff so I can grow. It's also the biggest obstacle to sail whenever you do decide to sell the company. Yeah. The biggest objection we're gonna hear from a buyer is, but that owner's too involved. Yep. Owner dependency. Exactly. Every customer calls that owner directly, or those employees are so loyal to that owner and you know, if he stepped away, they wouldn't be a part of the company anymore. Or, yeah, he wears too many hats. Or you name it. If an owner's too involved in the day-to-day, and if you're asking yourself, am I too involved in the day-to-day of my business? Just ask yourself, if I went away on a vacation for three months Yeah. What would happen to my company? A hundred percent. If the answer is anything other than it would keep humming along the same as it always does, then you're probably a little too involved. I call it the vacation test. Mm-hmm. But you're a hundred percent right.

Joshua Wilson: 37:50

And you know would be really funny is if you. Walked yourself through that scenario. If I left for three months, how would my business do? Would it survive? And if you come up to the conclusion or your team tells you the conclusion, your company would actually do better with you gone. You might wanna, here's your sign. Yeah. Here's your sign. Right.

Jude David: 38:07

That's great. Great Start ex exiting yourself. That doesn't mean you have to sell the company, but start pulling yourself back.

Joshua Wilson: 38:13

Yeah,

Jude David: 38:13

that's

Joshua Wilson: 38:13

right. Have you both Jude, have you seen those scenarios where there's a, a business owner. And maybe them like moving away would actually allow it to get bigger, to grow faster.

Jude David: 38:28

Definitely. Um, we've had several of those where the owner was the thing holding the business back. Um, and it's hard whenever you're an advisor and your client is the owner of the business. To try to tell him, I think you're the obstacle here. Yeah. Um, and so that, that can be a real challenge. Um, what happens even more often than that is buyers look at a business that is really wrapped around the owner and the buyer thinks the owner can be plucked out. And we see that constantly. Um, and that's, that's probably a function of most owners wanting to exit the business whenever they sell. You know, they, they want to have a. 30 day transition plan or a 60 day transition plan, and then they're gone. You don't hear from 'em again. And so they will try, you know, we're, we're buyers of businesses, so we hear it all the time from, from owners of businesses we're trying to acquire, oh, I just need to be there for 30 days. I'll help you transition. And then, uh, then I'll be gone. I'm really not relevant to the business. And you start digging a little bit below the surface and you realize, well, but he does the accounting and he does the payroll and he does this, and he's the one who the employees report to Andy. He is the primary contact for the main four customers. And it's like you can't yank that guy out of the business. Yeah. Um, but it's amazing how many buyers look at businesses and think, oh yeah, I could do it better than he does. It's like, well, if you're buying a really well-functioning business with a lot of EBITDA and like a lot of recurring sales and whatever else, it's kind of arrogant to think that you're gonna just jump in and do it better than the owner does. So, um, probably good to approach it with a little humility. You know, we, we found the best thing to do as a buyer is to come in and not change anything for several months. Yeah. It might be three months, it might be six months, but I know you lose a little bit of time and, and you love to get that return by jumping in and starting to change things, but. It's just a little arrogant to think that you know better without even knowing the company. So if you come in and you watch a little bit and you learn a little bit, eventually you'll get to a point where you really do have some good ideas about what to change and, and then you can start implementing those changes and hopefully at that point the owner really is irrelevant. You can, you can pluck'em from the business.

Joshua Wilson: 40:41

Yeah. That's. It is. Thanks. I, man, I'm, I'm super grateful to have you, you guys here to, to bounce these, uh, topics around as a podcast host yourself. Jeff, what is one of your favorite questions that you like to be, or that you like to ask your guests?

Jude David: 40:56

Well, I, um, I started out in podcasting with, uh, a podcast called, I Finally Get It. Really what it was a, a data capturing exercise as well as, uh, I thought it's interesting how you have these individuals who have worked in industries or businesses for decades and decades and decades, and oftentimes I find that, that there are things that hold back or things that are challenge them. And so I would ask people like, so what is it you finally get? Hmm. Right. And then how'd you figure it out? And what I found most often is this, um, authenticity. What was the biggest thing that when people discovered that they can go into their companies and be themselves instead of wearing a mask like we do in different social settings or we, we just put on a certain mask that is, it's so freeing and it changes. Not only changes them and their families, but it changes their businesses forever.

Joshua Wilson: 42:07

Yeah. Yeah. That's super special. Well, Jeff, uh, one more time, give a plug to, uh, your podcast.

Jude David: 42:13

Yeah. The podcast is Lead Grow Live. Uh, if you go to YouTube, you can watch it, just go to company Growth TV and, um, it's, it's in there. And, uh, it's all from Company Growth Academy.

Joshua Wilson: 42:27

Yeah. Super cool. Well, fellow deal makers in the audience, as always, reach out to the guest. His contact information will be in the show notes. You'll be able to, uh, reach out to them directly and if, if you have a business that you'd like to, you know, have a conversation around, you know, maybe growing 'cause you want to get ready, you know, reach out to them, have a conversation, see if it's a good fit. Now, if you have a business that is ready to be sold, man, we would love to have that chat. We sell mid-market businesses. That's what we do. You could always head over to the deal podcast.com, fill out a quick form, and, uh, we'll start that conversation. We hope you guys are enjoying your day, and we'll see you all on the next episode. Cheers, everyone.