Learn Your Craft, Then Bet on Yourself — Todd Schoeffler

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Joshua Wilson: 0:28

Good day, everybody. Welcome to The Deal Podcast. So grateful that you guys are tuning in or maybe even watching live on or not live, but on on YouTube. We started releasing the full interviews on YouTube and we've we're testing out different cameras. You'll see a lot of cameras in here and our guests are are so gracious and and going on this journey with us. we're getting a lot of traction there, so you know, check out our YouTube channel. It might be of interest to to see the guest and and you know see a face behind a voice. And if you're listening in on the podcast, yes, keep keep going there too. But you know, let us know what what we could do better on the YouTube. That's an area of focus for us. The the mission and purpose of this show is to inspire future generation of deal makers. A lot of time our group here sells a middle market business and and the great stories of succession or impact or legacy or how people treat others and their employees are so powerful and those stories sometimes go untold. The stories of people building stuff and you know leaving a job to risk it all and bet on themselves go untold. So we want to share those stories. And that's why we bring on different guests, different backgrounds, different industries, different belief systems. And we just want to hear those stories and share those stories to inspire you guys. So with that, Mr. Todd, welcome to The Deal Podcast.

Todd Schoeffler: 1:52

Thank you. Appreciate it. Okay.

Joshua Wilson: 1:53

Yeah. Let's start with this. Who are you and what do you do?

Todd Schoeffler: 1:57

I'm Todd Schoeffler. born and raised Lafayette, Louisiana. They'll put me in the tomb here also. I'm fifty-four years old. I'm a landman by trade, oil and gas. I do midstream work also, and I I started Schoeffler Energy Group. It was twenty years ago in November. And literally started it in my bedroom, borrowed the five hundred dollars to go buy a a computer. And I worked for about three or four weeks in my bedroom and I decided I wasn't a remote worker. And I I I went and I rented a one room office probably smaller than this right here and just started chasing it. And you know, I had to do land work during the day and every now and then I'd find a day or two to sneak off to Houston and try to send somebody's office till they'd let me in and try to sell my wares to and my goods and you know built built I I had the you know Anybody that starts a business, they'll they'll tell you, you know, it's a lot of sweat and hard work and this, that, and the other, but takes a lot of luck too. And well, I think luck's part of it. but we when I started, I was about two years before the Haynesville Shale broke out and the and the horizontal drilling revolution broke out. So I had a couple of years to learn how to Do the work, manage the people, organize the jobs, get them paid, all that kind of stuff. I always had a goal of trying to scale what I did, but I didn't know how that was gonna happen. And when the Haynesville came, those opportunities presented themselves to really be able to take what I had started, and if the right opportunities presented themselves, be able to scale it and and really grow it to where, you know, you can you can do something with it.

Jude David: 4:24

What great timing. My goodness.

Todd Schoeffler: 4:28

It was two it was like perfectly two years of just, okay, you know, everything's kinda quiet. I can I can learn how to do this.'Cause I mean it's you know, there's a lot You got land work and then you got running a business. And yeah, it's I w I would do the run in the business from about five to ten at night. I do my land work at five you know, from five to eight in the morning and But but there's there's there's as everybody knows who puts a business together. It's it's a there's a lot more to it than just doing the work, whatever the work is to to put the business together.

Jude David: 5:10

yeah, you gotta be somewhat intelligent, you have to be a hard worker, and you have to have some luck. Right. And if any of those three are missing, you're probably not gonna be successful in business.

Todd Schoeffler: 5:19

Right. And and I mean I was never the smartest guy in school. I studied my butt off for every C ever made, but I was a grinder. I mean, I just grind. That's it. You you you're not gonna outwork me. And

Jude David: 5:37

Thirty four years old, you started this thing, so second career, I'm assuming. you know, what were you doing before you started?

Todd Schoeffler: 5:44

I was doing land work. So I and that that was so I c my my dad was an entrepreneur. His dad was an I mean, always had the always had the drive to go do it myself. But my dad always told me, Learn your craft. You know, before you go hang a shingle, make sure you know what you're if you're going into somebody's office to ask them for work, make sure no matter what they ask you to do, you can go do it. And that was, you know, learn your craft. So I mean I As soon as I got out of college, I got into doing landwork. And so I'd done that for ten or twelve years, whatever the math is, before I started the business.

Jude David: 6:23

So you came by it honestly. You always were a little bit entrepreneurial. What was the catalyst at thirty four years old where you said, I'm gonna get out of a stable career and go take a risk with myself?

Todd Schoeffler: 6:33

just I I knew that I I I knew enough to go ask somebody for work and I could handle no matter what they threw at me. I had enough experience at that point. If I could figure out the business side of it, I would be fine. Because I knew how to do the land work side of it. And yeah, and the and the guys I worked for, I I worked for two land firms. to get started, I worked I started with Todd Fontenot, still a good friend of mine today. If I had to go ask him for work today, he would give me a job. And I worked for Tommy Mouton, Paul Zehnder at Pride, all the guys. And if I had to go ask those guys for a job today, they would give me a job. And that's one thing I really prided myself upon. Though I'm really good friends with all those guys still. And you know when I when I started I I had I had gone to Tommy and Paul to ask look, I I feel like I can bring value, but I want to be able to work for equity. And their their their situation, their partnership wasn't open to that. And so we we parted on good ways. I still did work for even after I left and got started. And like I said, those guys are still really good friends of mine. And I wouldn't be sitting here without There's no doubt. So

Joshua Wilson: 8:02

Let me ask a question here. Let me dive in. You started twenty years ago in your bedroom, borrowed five hundred dollars for a laptop. Now that stands out in my head. Borrowed money for a laptop to kind of get going. It's kind of like your your Kickstarter, you know, powered by, you know, funded by Visa, right? Right. No

Todd Schoeffler: 8:19

Exactly.

Joshua Wilson: 8:19

doubt. Yeah. So you know, when when I hear like I want to work for equity and you're borrowing five hundred dollars for a laptop, it seems like you were an ambitious young fella. Mm-hmm. Where do you think that comes from, right? 'Cause it if you had tons of money in the bank you could go, Hey man, I want to buy into equity. You're you're willing to roll up your sleeves and go, I wanna work for it. Where do you think that comes from?

Todd Schoeffler: 8:41

So well, I can tell you where my mind was at the time. My my grandfather came over here on a boat with the shirt on his back and he lived the American dream. I mean he he was a mechanic at the railroad, he got into being a mechanic for automobiles and s grace of God, hard work, whatever. He ended up owning a car dealership and literally Live American dream. I had everything handed to me. I went I went to Catholic schools. I went to here to to US. I graduated from USL. It was all paid for. I I mean, if he can do it and he had not like literally nothing, I had all the tools. And that was and I had the spirit. I just it it was always instilled in us that go, go. Go do it yourself. Go figure out how to do it. And my dad instilled that in me and I got it from my grandfather also, you know. And you know, at 34, I always also in the back of my mind, I was young enough to fail too. You know, I mean, I could always pick up the pieces. If it didn't work out for me, go back to work for Tommy or Paul or Todd, you know, and and and they would have me back, you know, and That was that was just my mentality, you know.

Joshua Wilson: 10:12

Your your safety net was your skills, right? Like you're like I can I learned my craft, which was, you know, Dad said, You're a grinder, learn your craft, hang your shingle with someone else, learn the game, and you could always fall back on your skill sets. Right. Right. And I I think that's that that confidence allows you to run forward, right? Because I you always had I could always go get a job with a skill set. How did you find your skill set?

Todd Schoeffler: 10:40

O so

Jude David: 10:42

And what is it?

Todd Schoeffler: 10:44

I love the art of the deal. and and I'm a deal maker at heart. And the land business is the perfect place to to really hone your skills as a deal maker'cause as soon as you make one deal, they got another one waiting right behind you to go make another one'cause it's that's how it works. You know what I mean? The whole company gives you a block, you go lease everybody inside the block. As soon as you get one deal done, you go to the next one and you you lease him too. And it's Just really hone your skills as a negotiator. And that's that's what draw me drew me to the land business. Like I love the art of the deal. And it's it's all you do. You know, there there's a lot more to the to the work than than just making the deals. You know, you gotta run the title, you gotta have you have to understand the right people to make the deals with. That is a big part of what we do. but what drew me to it is the is the art of the deal. And just that's that's what I love.

Joshua Wilson: 11:46

How accurate how accurate is the show Landman with Billy Bob Thornton where guys driving up in a pickup truck knocking on the door?

Todd Schoeffler: 11:53

can tell you this, I watched like the first and I'm I'm not a I'm not a big TV watcher, but my kids made me watch the first or the first episode. And I watched probably about thirty minutes of it and I was like, this is nothing like what I do. Cause I like I work a lot in South Texas. I've done a lot of deals down there. And under like no circumstance have I ever felt threatened with anybody I ever did business with down there. The people

Jude David: 12:25

Hotels never stole your airplane.

Todd Schoeffler: 12:27

I never you know, I mean I never I never had a hood over my you know, whatever that Japanese nail in his leg. Yeah, no, I mean it's just now look, I've I've been in some very contentious meetings with folks where things have gone wrong and stuff like that, but never ever felt threatened in what I do, you know. Yeah. you know, when you're on people's property, you know, tearing it up, you know, because you're you're you're putting a well, you're doing seismic, you're doing something that's tearing their land up. And sometimes those things don't go well. And You know, you gotta work back that that's what the landman does is work back to where, if you if you do have those damages that have to get settled and taken care of, you're doing it at the best interest of the company's paying you to be there. but you also you gotta get those people back happy too, you know, because you've you've done something to their land that's damaged or whatever and upset or whatever the case may be.

Joshua Wilson: 13:33

Yeah. So some of the what are some of the skill sets of a good landman, right? Negotiation, business development. Are we walking around with one of those wires where we're trying to find water and oil?

Todd Schoeffler: 13:45

So so the way that really works is like the the the companies come to us and tell us they they they do the the divining and tell us where they they want to put their put their block together or in the in the midstream world, I get a I get a line on a map and they say, Look, we're gonna we're gonna put a pipeline from A to Z and and tell me he was But but the skill set beyond negotiations are you gotta be negotiating with the right person. And to to to to know who that right person is, you've gotta get into the the the local tax authorities tax rolls. That's gonna tell you who the current owner is. And then you you get in the courthouse records and you you run the title, you research, you get Whatever the criteria are, some some people make your research all the way from patent to present, some thirty years, some fifty years, whatever, whatever the criteria is. and you you you understand the particular ownership that you're trying to lease. For example, in in Texas, not many of the surface owners own their minerals. So there's a division somewhere in the chain of title where the minerals split off. And you gotta understand who the current mineral owner is to buy the lease from. In the in the pipeline world, it's a it's a surface asset and you're looking to put a pipe on the person's property that owns where you're gonna put your pipe. And so you're gonna run that surface owner to present and understand who that is and make the deal with it.

Joshua Wilson: 15:27

So you got this list of people now. All right. We got a huge line, a hundred miles or however long, right? I don't even know. Or block. Mm-hmm. So you and I have a bunch of names now. I think, you know, part of the the skill set that we want to hear about is like, all right, how do you get a hold of them? How do you talk to them? How do you are you knocking on doors? Are you showing up at their country club? Are you

Todd Schoeffler: 15:48

Well, I mean, it starts off with good old Google search or w w you know, I mean internet search, try to try to find a a good phone number. Like when I started, I mean it's literally still before the days of the internet where or w wasn't very popular. But I mean we start with a phone book. And like we would literally like if we were working, let's say for example, down in Cameron, you'd go grab a phone book out of the motel or whatever, and that's what that's how you found people's numbers back then. and then as the internet materialized and that changed, you know, you could you could get those searches taken care of there. But what's really changed is nobody has home phones anymore. So finding people these days is pretty difficult on sales because it's it's hard to find s you know, somebody doesn't want their cell number out there. It's be pre-order to track them down. But I mean my guys, you know, Facebook, Instagram, all that kind of stuff, they they'll find you, you know, if if you're active on social media, we can usually we can usually find you and get in touch with you. Yeah. So and there's some people, like they don't want to be found and we physically go to whatever their address is and I've I've walked into somebody's yard that says it has a sign that says trespassers will be shot and survivors will be shot again. So I mean, we gotta get leased, you know. Yeah. I mean that's that's what we do. Louisiana.

Joshua Wilson: 17:24

That's a Texas.

Jude David: 17:25

Yeah, right there.

Joshua Wilson: 17:27

Yeah. All right. So The business development is one of the skill sets. The negotiation, knowing management, knowing things. As you s as you were growing this from out of your bedroom on that laptop to now, you know, looking back, you know, what are some of the things, what are some milestones that you've hit in terms of employees or something? Like what what would you say like looking back, you're like, Man, that was tough, but I'm proud of the work we did. It could be numbered leases or whatever. Give me give me

Todd Schoeffler: 17:58

Yeah. So I mean, like our I judge myself on on number of employees and the biggest we've ever got, we've we've run about four hundred employees. And you know, it's it's there's a lot of white hair in a young man's head. from from it's it's it's a lot. And I haven't mentioned this yet, but but my wife and I run the business and just a I'm just a slick salesman. She she she runs the she's the brain of the operation. She's the CFO, you know, like like most people's households, but but she does it for our business too. And sh sh she's she's the difference. When I first started you know she was she was teaching school and it was y you know Doing both, like I like I mentioned earlier, you know, I'd I do my land work all day and then then I had to do the business side of it. I had to pay bills, I had to pay employees, I had to, you know, all all had had to get the invoices out, you know, and it was it's it's just it's a lot. You know, you still I started, you know, I started getting like get up to three or four people working for me and like, you know, it's ten, eleven o'clock before I got finished. And I was like I had to do something at some point, 'cause if we're really gonna scale this thing, I I max out to do both at about ten was where like I couldn't it's too much. You know, I mean there was no I at the time I had two kids, I might even had three by then. And and there was just there was no time for I missed a lot of soccer games, I missed a lot of ballet, I missed a and a perfect dad, you know, but So her family is, you know, I mean they come from from they're they're entrepreneurs too. And she she just eventually it's like I'm miserable teaching. I'm I'm I'm coming help. And that's probably it's it was before the Haynesville broke because so it was it was more than a year but less than two years into it. and you know, she just when when we first got that first crack at okay, look, we want a sixty man crew to go do what we're gonna do, that's when you're like, yeah. This is awesome. It just got revealed. Yeah, but like, what what am I what am I gonna do? You know, and and then We we had the the the the basis was set. We knew how to do it. It's just scaling and and and being able to get the invoices out, get everybody paid, get the bills paid, you know, 'cause it it's it's a two week cycle and you don't get paid every two weeks, you know, so but you're paying your people every two weeks. So it's it's a it's a lot of money shuffling and I it really what it what it I guess where I'm going with talking about my wife here. When I brought her in or when she came in to to run her half of the business, she It let me get back out and get into sales, business development, all that kind of stuff, because she was there running the books. It was with somebody I knew, trusted, trust, loved, whatever. and and I knew she had my best at heart as far as for like making sure things were taken care of from that aspect. And and and and then also you have at that same time basically we're also showing we're able to demonstrate that we can operate at scale. We were given those chances on the Haynesville because everybody was. And we could show that yes, Todd can run a twenty a sixty man crew, his team can run, like they they can do that kind of stuff. And I could sell it then. You know, once once we had I had the resume that that we could operate on a larger than just him and a couple of people in the office. those doors started opening where I was just sitting in there for hours trying to wait for somebody to see me. all of a sudden it was busy, you know, so so they needed the work they needed the help also. But the resume was built at that point.

Jude David: 22:55

Well it sounds like whenever she stepped in you were able to really step into your lane and grow it.

Todd Schoeffler: 23:00

Exactly.'Cause I mean I like us I mean that's BD is the that's that's the art of the deal too,'cause you know, you gotta get in there, you gotta sell yourself and you gotta close.

Jude David: 23:15

We actually see the same thing all the time whenever people sell their companies. you they'll see the company explode in growth after the sale. And it has less to do with like the buyer bringing work and a whole lot more to do with, you know, the owner was wearing every hat before they sold. And, you know, he was in charge of accounting, he was in charge of HR and payroll and whatever else. They go through a sale and suddenly the buyer starts taking over all those back office functions and saying, just get out there and sell. Go go do the thing you're good at. And it's like they light up. my gosh, finally I get to do the thing I like to do.

Todd Schoeffler: 23:47

Yeah. Well that's definitely what what what happened at a at a very opportune time for us as far as for like my wife took over the back office and she's very good at it. And I mean she she could not just that it's her business and she's working for herself, but she could she could run any company. She's she's that good at it. And I'm a I'm a little I'm a little jaded, but I mean she she is good at what she does.

Jude David: 24:18

I am in awe of husbands and wives who can work together that in such a complimentary way. That's unbelievable.

Todd Schoeffler: 24:23

Well we there's there's a there's a wall in between us and that's that's where

Jude David: 24:30

And if that wall came down there'd be real trouble.

Todd Schoeffler: 24:32

It'd be so bad, but yeah, I mean that's we we we made it to like we can't holler at each other through the wall. We gotta you know, we either pick up the phone or or we walk around and but yeah, no that's you gotta it's a balance. you know, there's there's there were certain points where I would I s I said, babe, we like we gotta leave it at the office, you know.'Cause you can you can it can consume you if you let it, especially a husband and wife deal. and look, it's not for everybody, but we it worked for us. And but but what we basically have to do, unless Rome's burning, we don't talk about it outside of the office. it's just

Jude David: 25:20

That's a good rule.

Todd Schoeffler: 25:22

it's what we've had to do to be able to have some separation from it. And look, there's always It it's it's but that's our basic rule, you know. Unless something's really going bad, we we try to we try to leave it at the office.

Jude David: 25:40

How cool to have long line of entrepreneurs in both of your families. Yeah. How does that impact the way you raise your kids? I'd I'd assume they're they're soaking it.

Todd Schoeffler: 25:48

My my same thing to is I I I've I've always preached, look, learn your craft. It's the same thing my dad told me. Learn your craft and if the bug if you have the bug, you know it. If you don't, you you know to do do what makes you comfortable, do what makes you happy. But if you have that bug, you you you got to go after it. And you gotta go you gotta go when you're young and not too not too old to fail, you know, because y'all know the statistics. I you know, it's it's not everybody that that makes it, you know, and like you say, you gotta have a little luck, you gotta little work, ethere, all that kind of stuff and it but it's got to it's gotta come together and

Jude David: 26:31

But you did it the right way. You did it at the right time. You had learned your craft really well before you made the move. I have a lot of young people that come to visit and you know, they they don't know anything yet, but they want to be the boss. I just go like, Well, you probably have to know something and then you can be the boss. Or or you have to be the best at whatever you're, you know, planning to do.

Todd Schoeffler: 26:50

I interview those people a lot these days. They're they're all looking for jobs.

Jude David: 26:55

You I I said, you know, figure out what you're passionate about, figure out what you really want to go do, find the person who's the absolute best at it, and then figure out whatever you have to do to work for them and learn everything that that they know. And

Todd Schoeffler: 27:06

There n no doubt.

Jude David: 27:08

unbelievable what you can do if you go learn from somebody who who has been there and practiced.

Todd Schoeffler: 27:13

'Cause I mean we're not you know, I mean I'm not we're not renting light stands, we're not renting downhole tools or anything. Like this is a my my business is a people business all around. You know what I mean? We We rent people. You know, I mean that's that's people come to us because we have really good landmen, we have really good abstractors, and we sell their services. And you y y you got to have, you know, the it's the good people too that make a difference in keeping them happy over the years. And I mean I've I I've got some people that work with me almost all twenty years I've been in business. so

Jude David: 27:54

Yeah, the oil field's tough though. Like people don't realize if you're outside of the oil field, your your customers pay you very slowly. Work is feast or famine. It can come all at once and then it'll all be gone just as fast.

Todd Schoeffler: 28:06

That's that's the that's the hardest part. The hardest part is being disciplined on cash flow. It's very, very my business is a very cash intense. I mean it's all it it it's it's all labor, you know, so it's super cash intensive. and you know, you don't cat the you don't get paid regularly. You know, I mean it is it is me, we have some clients like they pay like light switches, you know, and but some of are the typical oil field ninety, hundred twenty days and you know, you know how that gobbles cash.

Jude David: 28:47

Yeah. As long as your invoice was in just right, ninety to a hundred and twenty days. Maybe they start you over.

Todd Schoeffler: 28:52

Yeah. Yeah. Well

Joshua Wilson: 28:55

Okay.

Jude David: 28:56

I'm

Todd Schoeffler: 28:56

preaching to an acquiring.

Jude David: 28:57

sure it's stressful though to be in a business where, you know, for most businesses, their biggest expense is labor. Whenever your expense is whenever your your business is all built around labor, it's gotta be even more stressful, you know, in the ups and downs of the oil field. How did how have you managed over time when you've had to scale from, you know, fifty people to a hundred people to two hundred people and back and forward?

Todd Schoeffler: 29:19

Dude, I tell you that's one of the calluses I've never been able to grow is letting people go. Yeah. It just I I don't enjoy that part of the business. there's

Jude David: 29:29

There's no way around it.

Todd Schoeffler: 29:30

no way no, because like I said, I mean you can go from two hundred people to fifty in two phone calls. Three phone I mean it's and it when when they decide to hit the switch, they hit the switch. And it's that's why they hire contract workers is so that they can offload really quick.

Jude David: 29:52

Yeah, they don't like letting people go either. So they

Todd Schoeffler: 29:55

No, it's just one it's one phone call for them, you know. but yeah, no, I mean that's that's that's that's the service we sell though, is that's the attractiveness is is that we're a subcontractor and when you had enough of us, you cut us loose.

Jude David: 30:12

That's that's even more motivation to get out there and sell the work.

Todd Schoeffler: 30:14

Right, exactly. You know, and and and I I tell people, for for what I do, as soon as I put a job on the books, that's when I gotta start looking for the next one. 'Cause by the by the time I get the next one all teed up and lined up and ready to go on the books, that one's usually dead. And people are starting to look like I'm starting to roll people off and you gotta you gotta move into the next one. And So yeah, I mean it's it's constant. It's constant.

Jude David: 30:46

People don't understand that push pull between business development and ops. But business development needs to be on all the time. Twenty four hours a day we're looking for new work. And ops is always telling you, Wait, slow down, we got plenty of work. No no. If we slow down, you're not gonna have work the next time. But

Todd Schoeffler: 31:02

The crazy thing about the oil business, there are some times that I can I can look back in in my career where you you have to you don't go do the BD work 'cause you literally can't hire the people to cover the work. And it's the last couple of years have been like that. It has been it's it's been a really crazy ride over the last couple of years. And finding finding workers, you know, finding landmen. and and and you know competent ones to to do the work has has been difficult. And I have I've literally at points in the last few years taken a foot off the BD accelerator because you can't cover the work. And right.

Jude David: 31:47

Yeah. Capacitors. Yeah.

Todd Schoeffler: 31:50

I mean I guess. I always but I always would tell you I like more and more and more, but it's just if you if you take on too much without the pro proper personnel, it's it's worse. I mean it's more of a detriment to be able to call somebody back and tell we've screwed this whole thing up'cause I had didn't have the right people on it, than than turning it down. And I've learned that lesson the hard way. But

Joshua Wilson: 32:22

So what do you do when pipeline's full? 'Cause you're you're the sales guy, right? You're the rainmaker. You're the you're the guy who closes deals and does deals. So what what do you do with time, energy and focus when, you know, you've had a a heyday?

Todd Schoeffler: 32:36

Mm I'm a I I chase speckled trout. That is my weakness. I guess you ask me what's my my my hobbies. Sure.

Joshua Wilson: 32:45

Sure, yeah, hobby. And then yeah, let's start with hobbies. Talk to us.

Todd Schoeffler: 32:49

Yeah, no, I mean I I have yeah, I chase speckled trout. That's my favorite, most passionate thing I do. I have a camp at Cypremort Point and I I I want my house in Lafayette to turn into my camp in Lafayette and my camp at Cypremort Point to turn into my house. So that's I I want to be there five days a week and here two days a week at some point. No, just just regular bay casting, we fish offshore and boats and stuff like that. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And but I mean I learned I learned that from my grandfather, my dad too. You know, I mean that that's it's been a tradition in our family and big part of what we do has always been fishing.

Jude David: 33:34

So is it T Butte, is it Tiger Shoals, or is it the super secret honey hole that we're not gonna hear about?

Todd Schoeffler: 33:40

Yeah, no, I I I I'm mainly just I I fish the places everybody else fishes, you know, but I just go a lot, you know, and but I I I I love T But it's one of my favorite places to fish. Tiger Shoals also. you know, fish the pass, we fish the cove. I mean it's all the spots you can you can think of, or I've heard of. But yeah, I and I I I also like travel to travel fish. Like I I've fished the Atlantic coast. I fish Florida. I fished all the Gulf Coast from Brownsville to you know back back to Florida, Mississippi, Alabama. Like I just that's

Joshua Wilson: 34:28

You like

Todd Schoeffler: 34:29

that's what I do myself. And I've always I'm just an outdoorsman at heart. I I I like to duck hunt a bunch. I like to deer hunt. But if you If you make me pick, I'm a I'm a trout fisherman.

Joshua Wilson: 34:44

So when you're not trout fishing and you and the pipeline's full in the business world, right? You've got the the the rainmaker, the the deal guy. When the deals have already been done, people are already doing their job, like what do you find? What do you do with your time? What's the most productive use of your time now that BD is full up and you can't sell any more jobs? What do you

Todd Schoeffler: 35:05

Like I I I I get in the trenches and k just go do good old rock and roll land work. Like I I you know, if it's if it's that full up, they need me doing landwork too, you know, and I can't run title anymore, because it's all done online and I learned how to do it in a courthouse. And so I I won't I know how to read I understand title. I know how to read title, I know how to you know If somebody gives me a stack of deeds, I can go through and tell you who the mineral owner is or who the surface owner is that we gotta do a deal with. I can't extract it from the courthouse records anymore. I just that's a skill set I lost because I just wasn't doing it. But yeah, no, and I Pick up the land. I pick up the phone and we'll call landowners. Like especially you know, every project ha has somebody in the project that doesn't really want to conform. And those are the guys I like to work with. You know, I like to I I like to figure out how to make a deal with somebody who doesn't want to really make a deal. And you know, that's That's, you know, ninety percent of the project probably anybody could go make a deal with. You could you bringing them money. you you you get through the nuances of the lease. You know, you'll and I may may want a damaged provision, they may want a Pugh clause, whatever you you get through all that. but it's those it's those two or three and I mean it it's every job. Like you can I can promise you, you're never gonna get everybody to agree to something. Those are the ones I like to I like to go after.

Joshua Wilson: 36:56

Let let's talk about this because the the digging into the the hard ones, that's where you find kind of like the challenge, the joy. He's a dealer.

Jude David: 37:05

He's an adrenaline junkie. For some people it's you know spear fishing and hang gliding, but you know, for some people it's it's can I get that yes.

Todd Schoeffler: 37:13

Yeah. Yeah. No, I mean it's 'cause it it it it's there's a lot of pressure to it, you know. some of these deals, like if you can't get that last guy to come around, they've spent millions of dollars to put together and if you can't get it, the whole thing could wash out. And no, and I like I mean I like that. I guess I guess I I don't I don't know if I get an adrenaline charge from it or not, but I just I like the weight on my shoulders and I I like to I like to pull it off.

Jude David: 37:48

So if I'm a landowner, am I better off negotiating with you if I'm the first guy or am I better off negotiating with you if I'm the last guy?

Todd Schoeffler: 37:57

Well, I mean, it all depends on like where like where you're gonna fall. Like if you if you have that a thousand acre tract and everybody else has the ten acre tracks, 'cause that's usually how it works. The the guy with the biggest track usually is the hardest nut to crack. And the smaller ones are, you know, I mean, they don't have as much to negotiate. There's not as much bargaining room there and but but the big guy typically does. so I mean that's a lot of that would depend on You don't have a choice. Yeah, we're we're we're good like I when I send everybody out, they they go, we make our contacts, and that tough guy gets identified. And then I'll circle in and that's that's kind of how it works.

Jude David: 38:48

So I gotta know your top two or three rules of negotiation. I'll tell you right out of the gate, my favorite is the first guy to talk loses.

Todd Schoeffler: 38:55

Yeah. I my deal is you that's that's a lot of it. And I I like silence.

Jude David: 39:08

More than you speak.

Todd Schoeffler: 39:09

Yeah, exactly. 'cause if you're if you're talking too much in a deal it's you're losing. And that's I mean I think that's the exact same thing you're saying. is you know, he who he who speaks first flinches. And but I learned from some really good guys. you know, just just some some of the old guys I worked with you know, coming up in the business, just just really good at what they did. You know, they're very once you once you know what you're selling and there's there's no question that pops up that you don't have an answer to that that also makes you a really good negotiator. and and I found the more tenure I had in a business, the obviously the better I got at it. and because some of these landowners we deal with, they it's generational. Like their grandfather sign leases with a landman. Their dad took it over after he did. And now that's in the third or fourth generation. These these guys are good at what they do. And they especially active areas, you know, like we do a lot of work in West Texas. You deal with those guys out around Midland. I mean they are incredible negotiators. I mean they just they know the art and and they they know the market. And they understand the market and they they understand our tactics better than we understand our tactics sometimes. And you know, they're they're really good at. I when I first got in the business, the guys in Vermilion Parish were some of the best negotiators in the world. Like I Vermilion and Acadia Parish, like I that's where I cut my teeth and and

Jude David: 41:14

It's in the blood down there. Yeah. Yeah. And good luck SpaceX trying to negotiate those land deals. I got

Todd Schoeffler: 41:20

My tail handed to me many a times. You know, to just I was I had less experience then, but but it but everybody's got to learn a business. And but but I if I look back at like where some of the pockets of some, and I've worked all over the country. I've worked the Northeast, I've worked North Dakota, I've worked Wyoming, like I've worked all over doing landwork. some of the most savvy. people I've ever dealt with are down here. You know you

Jude David: 41:54

And they talk like coon asses sometimes. And you know what? People underestimate left and right.

Todd Schoeffler: 41:58

Incredible bargainers. They understand you the part of the deal, you know, I mean and and just and and they also like they're generational. They've plied that land, their grandfather did it, their their dad did it, you know, and it it it means a lot to You know, you're not gonna go take advantage of from that standpoint. because it it's it's It's everything you got and it's their s their piece of heaven. And they don't want you taking advantage of that.

Jude David: 42:35

You gotta be able to listen to those people. You gotta be cool, calm, and collected whenever you negotiate with I've I've seen plenty of landmen who were hotheads and you know, angry negotiators. It it's not gonna work down in Vermilion Parish, I can promise you that.

Todd Schoeffler: 42:51

It doesn't it you know, I don't I that's not my tactic. You know, I mean I if if if you if you can't keep your cool at the table you're you're y it's probably just as bad as first man who talks, you know, 'cause and there and there's some there's some of those negotiations. Sometimes it gets super heated. It's hard not to to keep your cool. and I'm I'm not saying I never did, but but I but I probably lost when when I did lose my my temper or you know, 'cause it's you know, I think that's that's important part is to keep you cool on that kind of stuff.

Jude David: 43:35

All right, one of the great joys we have at The Deal Podcast is we have every guest in the studio leave a question for the next guest. So we're gonna read one from our last guest, but then we'll also have you leave one

Todd Schoeffler: 43:47

Do you tell me who that guest is?

Jude David: 43:49

this one was Brennan Castille, DMR Drones. Yeah. Over the course of your career, what business leader or mentor influenced you or what books would you recommend for the audience if they need someone some mentoring.

Todd Schoeffler: 44:06

Okay, so I will tell you, since you're on the SpaceX theme, I I read Elon Musk's biography by is it Bernstein or I it's I can't remember what his name is. just one of the most fascinating reads as far as for where he came from, where Elon came from and and how he how he did what he did. just from an entrepreneurial standpoint, but then also just having something he was super passionate about and and he doesn't care about money. You know, I mean it's it's ancillary. he cares about whatever he cares about at the moment, you know, and but I I definitely that was a read that I was very impressed with and would certainly recommend And then what was the first part of it?

Jude David: 45:06

What mentors or leaders have influenced you in your career?

Todd Schoeffler: 45:11

Yeah. my my my father and my my my grandfather. but if if I'm gonna get outside of family I I look at Jack McGillagut. He's been he's been a good friend, a good mentor, somebody you you know also and he's just I've known him a long time and he's he's been good to me. So

Joshua Wilson: 45:37

Yeah. Here's your chance. I'm gonna put you on the spot to get some major brownie points at home with your CFO. All right. All right. When it comes to the things that you think you know you have great joy in and you're good at, and then what about for your you called her babe, what is her greatest strength and where do you think she finds joy in the business?

Todd Schoeffler: 46:04

She I'm trying to think about that. I she just I think she's success driven, you know, and I I think she likes to be part of of something that's been successful. We've worked hard, we weren't always successful, we've definitely had down times. We've had to we've gone all in several times in our lives, you know, just Either people not paying us or it gets slow and you keep people longer than what you probably should have, because they're good at what they do and you hope the business is gonna come back and you know, I I that's I'm I I think that's her what she brings to it as far as for like she just she likes being successful and she likes being a part of of something that's been successful, but but also isn't easy, you know. sh she likes to drop that out. We truly enjoy each other, you know? I mean in you have to to spend twenty four hours a day constantly with your your spouse. You you it's not all unicorns and roses. Don't don't don't get me wrong. We have our spats and we're not afraid to to yell about but I enjoy being with my wife. And I guess she does too.

Joshua Wilson: 47:30

Super cool. One piece of advice for we've interviewed a few husbands and wives, right? one piece of advice for working with a spouse. Let's just say they are entrepreneurial, both of them, and let's just say they do like each other.

Todd Schoeffler: 47:48

Yeah. to me you gotta understand the division of labor. Like where what are you doing? What am I doing? 'cause that Like if I think if we were doing the same thing, I don't I don't think it would work. And and she really she took off sh with the with the financial side, you know, CFO work of the business and I just went BD'd. And I th it worked for us. And I think that that's that's super important because and then also leave it at the office. You know, you gotta be able to set up some sort of arrangement to where And like I told you, it's not it's not possible to be a hundred percent with that, but but if you always had that fallback to like, look, babe, not tonight. I mean this is I d I know Rome's burning, but I don't wanna deal with it t we'll like we'll we'll fix it in the morning when we get to the office or whatever. Or no, you can't wait. We c like we gotta do something now, but but yeah, that that's my division of labor and then Being able to leave it at the office as much as you can.

Joshua Wilson: 49:04

Cool. Todd, thank you so much for coming in for The Deal Podcast. if people wanna learn more about your group, where could people go to learn more?

Todd Schoeffler: 49:15

I mean we have a website on www.segland.com, S E G L A N D dot com.

Joshua Wilson: 49:22

What does that stand for?

Todd Schoeffler: 49:23

Schoeffler Energy Group and then Land. So Segland.

Joshua Wilson: 49:28

Got it. Cool. Thanks for coming in, man.

Todd Schoeffler: 49:30

All right, thanks.

Joshua Wilson: 49:31

Jude, wrap us up, man.

Jude David: 49:34

Todd, thanks so much for coming on. I feel like I learned several different things. you know, how to work with your spouse, how to build a business the right way, and all the challenges of the oil field. But I think the thing I liked most about your story, it's it's a very typical story we see a lot. you know, people learning their craft really well, making a transition sometime in their early thirties to do it for themselves and then building something exceptional. so I think that's the thing I want our listeners to to take away is, you know, that you have to be knowledgeable in your craft. But, you know, once you are, you know, feel free to bet on yourself. to those listeners out there who are who are in that category, they've they've spent the last decade and they've they've kind of mastered their craft, but they're a little nervous to go jump out on their own. What's the advice you want to leave behind for

Todd Schoeffler: 50:28

Man, just do it. And do it while you're young. And and I was always my mentality is I I wanted to do it when I could survive a failure. failure was never an option, I would tell you that, but in the back of your mind, you know, you look at the statistics, you know, it's there's a lot of a lot of failures. So, do it, do it while you're young. You got the energy and And and just cause you get it's a grind. It's definitely a grind. And you gotta love what you're doing. You gotta find something you're super passionate about, to to to be successful at it. That that's my opinion. And just go get it. You know, it's it's out there.

Jude David: 51:17

Well listeners, that's it. You gotta do it. Just go get it. We we believe in you, believe in yourself.

Joshua Wilson: 51:25

We'll see you all on the next episode of The Deal Podcast. Cheers, guys.

Todd Schoeffler: 51:27

Thanks, cheers.